SMB is Dead, Long Live SMB

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  1. Posts : 3
    Wim 10 20H2
       #30

    I know that I am going to continue using SMB1 for as long as I can. I run two networks with two computers in each. One computer is the primary and has all of the data files and the other is the secondary and has no data files. When the secondary computer wants to use a file, it grabs it from the primary. It is a poor-man's 2-computer server system. When Windows isn't screwing it up, it works just fine. To make these networks work, I have to enable SMB1 and I have to modify my registry settings to make the secondary computer the permanent Master Computer Browser and prevent the primary computer from ever becoming the Master Computer Browser. This way, anytime that I need a file from the primary computer, I can use File Explorer, Word, or Excel to browse to the primary computer and grab the file. If the secondary computer ever looses the Master Browser status, or SMB1 is turned off, it looses all ability to browse the network.

    When the secondary computer can't browse the network, it can still access files from the primary computer, if the file was previously accessed and Word or Excel has a full path name for it. If I had previously mapped a primary computer directory to a drive letter, I can still access the primary computer directory that way. I cannot map new files to drive letters by browsing, since browsing doesn't work, but I can if I enter a full path name to the computer and directory.

    I think that pain from the lack of being able to browse my network over-rides any security concerns of using SMB1 on my diddly 2-computer networks.

    My real head-scratcher is the fact that if I enable password protected file sharing, I can't get Windows to accept any form of user name/password to access the other computer on my network. I obviously know the user name and password of the other computer, since the name is shown on the login screen every time I login with the password on that computer. Just to cover all bases, I made the password to both computers the same as my Microsoft account password, in case that was what it wanted. I also made sure that I was using the password, and not the PIN, to log in the computers, but no dice. I also created Windows certificates for both computers, on both computers, but still no go. So for now, I am going with no password protection on file sharing.
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  2. Barman58's Avatar
    Posts : 3,928
    Windows 10 Pro x64 2004 - 19041 - 264 XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing
       #31

    I personally use the latest SMB3 protocol between several Windows 10 systems and rarely have any issue. When I investigate these errors the fault is usually something I've done, eg. I have Two WiFi networks, Standard & Enhanced Security, and sometimes a system reboot will cause a device to log into the "wrong" network.

    One thing that may help the SMB on my network is that I always log-in using my MS ID which seems to be more robust than a local account
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  3. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,474
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #32

    Barman58 said:
    I personally use the latest SMB3 protocol between several Windows 10 systems and rarely have any issue. When I investigate these errors the fault is usually something I've done, eg. I have Two WiFi networks, Standard & Enhanced Security, and sometimes a system reboot will cause a device to log into the "wrong" network.

    One thing that may help the SMB on my network is that I always log-in using my MS ID which seems to be more robust than a local account
    Hi there
    That's 100% fine - but there is a lot of legacy hardware and software around that still relies on SMB1 so "Windows just removing it willy nilly" will certainly cause a lot of "aggro".

    It will still be several years yet before these devices and programs are all "retired".

    However if people want to use file transfer safely then ensure openssh server is installed on your Windows 10 machine (if it's sending files) -- available from the install optional features in settings, and auto start the service.

    If the machine is merely receiving files then openssh client is used by default (that's also installed as standard in Windows 10).

    Then for sending / receiving files instead of using file explorer use either ssh in command line mode or a program like filezilla and use the sftp protocol -- at least this encrypts files on transmission / reception.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  4. Barman58's Avatar
    Posts : 3,928
    Windows 10 Pro x64 2004 - 19041 - 264 XP/Vista/Win7/Win8.1 in VM for testing
       #33

    I am aware of the issues with obsolete hardware needing to retain the older protocols and this is a valid reason to retain the older SMB1. Until recently I had an old TV Streaming box that used SMB1 so retained it whilst also running the SMB3, (which the system will default to for all devices that will work with the later protocol if both are available).

    I have now retired all of my older hardware so have no need for SMB1 although it may still be on my old laptop, not an issue as the it is protected by a Pro Level Anti Malware suite
    Last edited by Barman58; 02 Mar 2021 at 05:44.
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  5. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,474
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #34

    Barman58 said:
    I am aware of the issues with obsolete hardware needing to retain the older protocols and this is a valid reason to retain the older SMB1. Until recently I had an old TV Streaming box that used SMB1 so retained it whilst also running the SMB3, (which the system will default to for all devices that will work with the later protocol if both are available).

    I have now retired all of my older hardware so have no need for SMB1 although it may still be on my old laptop, not an issue as the it is protected by a Pro Level Anti Malware suite
    Hi there

    things like latest KODI version (rel 19) running say on an amazon firestick have in their security set up a specify "Min Protocol" or even "Max Protocol" that you can use so SMB3 is fine for those cases where it gets files / streams from modern hardware / OS'es.

    It will use SMB3 by default and drop down for other devices that can't use SMB3

    For data from older NAS's it can "auto use" SMB1 so the advice suggested by most posts on the Forum is to only use SMB1 on those devices that can't work with anything else rather than have your whole network set running SMB1.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  6. TV2's Avatar
    TV2
    Posts : 1,771
    W10 Pro 20H2
       #35

    Can you use SMBv3 on a simple network without password protected sharing? (Can I skip passwords and PCs will see each other?).

    I think I have upgraded all my hardware. Could make the switch over.
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  7. Zardoc's Avatar
    Posts : 370
    Windows 10 Enterprise
       #36

    AirPower4ever said:
    I have it saved. In the thread it also points to handy tool

    Registry Hack to DISABLE Master Browser
    Hi,

    Wouldn't this be the Reg hack?

    Might have to add Dword IsDomainMaster

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters]
    "MaintainServerList"="no"
    "IsDomainMaster" = False
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