SMB is Dead, Long Live SMB

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  1. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,342
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #10

    Barman58 said:
    I've got into the habit of always reading/watching reviews and downloading the manual BeforeI even place an order, it's often surprising what the fancy high gloss colour brochure leaves out
    Again, this ^
    Also visiting any forums relating to the item. Gives an idea of any issues you may have to deal with.
      My Computers

  2. EdTittel's Avatar
    Posts : 4,100
    Windows 10
       #11

    Blogged about this for Win10.Guru yesterday: SMB1: The Zombie Protocol That WILL NOT DIE. Thanks @Brink for sharing the article, and for all you do to help the community keep up with all the glorious (and inglorious) details of Windows 10.
    --Ed--
      My Computers

  3. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,474
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #12

    Hi folks

    In theory fine

    but what of zillions of TV's, amazon fire sticks, roku boxes, Raspbian stuff and a whole slew of other "Non Windows" thingeys that still rely on SMB1.

    Nobody is going to chuck out decent working flat screen TV's etc because they still use SMB1.

    SMB1 will be around longer than XP was !!!! even years after the original EOL Ms had it set for.

    On typical home LAN's etc using SMB1 isn't a security nightmare -- a lot of this "security" scare stuff is probably made by people like Malwarebytes etc into scaring HOME users that their computers are likely to get infected etc -- VIRUS infection for HOME users (not Companies, Cloud, Forums etc) is NOT A PROBLEM any more -- name of the game these days is in Scamming passwords, bank accounts, identity theft etc etc.

    The Computer security industry is still as far as HOME computers are concerned (especially Malwarebytes, Norton etc) offering 20C solutions to a 21C problem -- WD plus its real time protection is more than good enough on HOME computers for around 99% of users out there.

    I've often posted --What does Malwarebyts show you that WD hasn't detected" -- surprising --zero replies so that must say someting.

    If Malwarebytes wants to get into C21 for HOME users then it should look at trying some A.I (Artificial Intelligence) algorithms to see if it can solve "Scamming" type problems -- eseoteric A/V problems are so old hat on HOME computers --but I suppose Old Habits die hard especially when Windows before the latest versions of W10 made the word security an absolute joke !!!!

    If you are using SMB1 on a home network DON'T WORRY --there's likely to be ZERO problem.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer

  4. jh30uk's Avatar
    Posts : 255
    Windows 10
       #13

    The Nvidia Shield TV update a while back adds SMB 3.0 but only for one aspect, it still relies on SMB 1.0 for the other (cannot remember exactly) but can go and look it up if need be.
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  5. Golden's Avatar
    Posts : 1,635
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       #14

    Barman58 said:
    Not at all, Microsoft are the issue, yes there is a risk, a very small one, but only if you are not running the Router's built in protection - The hardware Firewall for a start, SMB is used for the router to communicate with the network and the devices on it, the USB connection is a standard setup in the router hardware.
      My Computers

  6. EdTittel's Avatar
    Posts : 4,100
    Windows 10
       #15

    I agree with @jimbo45: the risk is small, and only present if somebody with knowledge and the right tools gets loose on your (home) network. Not terribly likely to happen, but if it did ... look out!
    Great discussion, BTW. From some legacy technologies, there is no escape.
    --Ed--
      My Computers

  7. FrankW's Avatar
    Posts : 150
    Windows10 20H2 x64 Home, Single language, build 19042.870
       #16

    SMB1 or SmbDirect?


    Hi,
    I have 3 Features enabled in Windows10 1909 build 18363.959, Home: SMB1Protocol, SMB1Protocol-Client and SMB1Protocol-Deprecation. Shawn @Brink lists the same 3 features + SmbDirect all enabled (default) for W10 2019 versions. I don't have SmbDirect on my system (that was restored last week by Acer/Windows Reset). And @Steve C has only SmbDirect enabled (has the 3 SMB1 features disabled and installed 11 Aug KB4565351 without problems).
    I am a layman in networking and would like to know if this SMB1 (without SmbDirect) can have any impact on installing Windows August 11 Update that bumps up version 18363.959 to 18363.1016, which I am unable to do (failed to install 5 times, including 1 manual download from MSFT update catalog)? I have TCP-Bios enabled in Services but disabled in iPv4 protocol, Windows WIFI adapter (iPv4 is the only protocol I have running). Downloading updates no issue and all 16 Windows updates for a fresh W10 version installed automatically last week, except KB4565351 failed (now hidden).
    If SMB1 has got nothing to do with windows update client I will happily continue my quest.
    Thanks
    Frank
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 3
    Wim 10 20H2
       #17

    Why I seem to need SMB1


    I run two computers in my home and in my condo. One is a master with all my data files and the other is a slave with just programs. Back in the bad old days (Win 7 and Workgroups), it was no problem for the second computer to access the files on the main computer. As soon as Win 10 hit, I started having to jump through hoops. I could usually get it to work after a lot of foo-foo dust and chanting, but the problem always seemed to revolve around the browsing function and the browser elections. It got down to the point that if I could keep SMB1 alive and make sure that the main computer got reset when things broke (to force the secondary computer to become the master browser), things sort of worked. However, all of this still depended on SMB1. Every major Win 10 update would break it. To date, I have not found anything else that reliably keeps my diddly 2-computer networks running. It's almost as if Microsoft wants us to have a real server in the mix or to have all data files on their cloud. I have recently updated to 20H2 and still have not gotten the network running again.

    Tim
      My Computer

  9. NavyLCDR's Avatar
    Posts : 15,508
    Windows 10 Pro
       #18

    Informative article regarding WSD which should replace NETBIOS for name resolution on your network:

    How to kill off SMB1, NetBIOS, WINS and *still* have Windows' Network Neighbourhood better than ever | TrueNAS Community

    You can scroll down to How To Do It if you don't want to read all the technical history.
      My Computer

  10. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,474
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #19

    Hi there

    A bit of combination of "Bovine Scatology", Fake news and some I.T security gurus desperately trying to protect their jobs.

    On HOME (and I emphasise HOME) computers there's very little security risks these days in using SMB1 - especially with latest decent versions of WD on Windows, and on Linux / Android security has always been reasonably OK.

    In any case for (again I emphasize HOME) computers security isn't a major issue any more but probably SCAMS and the like are much more of a problem -- firms like 3rd party AV vendors e,g Malwarebytes, Norton and similar all know that they are offering what is an essentially vastly inferior product designed in last century and isn't worth the candle these days compared to the latest standard of Ms WD. (I can't ever imagine even thinking a few years ago that the Ms security offering would be one of the best currently available --shows how things change over time and how old attitudes should be slung away).

    A load of old TV's, Linux type NAS systems etc will still need SMB1 for a long time yet !!

    We should follow a similar type of advice as media presentations with Govt spokesmen/women and their scientific advisors say when giving out the "daily Covid-19" statistics in most countries "Study the Science" -- forget the emotion. We all want COVID-19 to be fixed so people get their jabs on the whole and follow the rules even when we hate a lot of that stuff.

    On typical HOME LANS (assuming you aren't running FORUMS, Bulletin boards , public websites etc) there's really very little risk --if any of actually getting harmed these days -- and even if you don't use Linux type NAS systems there's literally 100,000's of W7 and even older OS'es being used - whether as VM's or otherwise and these still need SMB1.

    I'm quite happy as others would be too to be able to junk SMB1 as soon as possible but I've got a load of equipment that still needs it and I'm not investing 1000's of dollars / euro on upgrading perfectly serviceable hardware -- I've better things to spend my money on. (And certainly not on "Overpaid I.T security consultants" getting paid gazillions for advising "Home Computer users") .

    No problem for those guys though doing a professional job for corporations, cloud servers, e-commerce site, even SME's - but for Home users -- C'mon peeps let's get real.

    (And finally BTW even on the latest W2K22 server trial you can still enable SMB1 so evem Ms isn't abandoning support just yet -- that should say something !!!!).

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Last edited by jimbo45; 26 Feb 2021 at 12:57.
      My Computer


 
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