New Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 18999 (20H1) - Oct. 8 Insider

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  1. Posts : 11,171
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #130

    martyfelker said:
    One of the problems with trying to figure out (can't even call it debug) this or analogous problems it that there is no way that I know that an ordinary, or even extraordcinary, can see behind the shutdown screen as one can in Linux by a quick edit of the grub.cfg file. At least we'd know which service is hanging. Microsoft could open-source the Windows kernel - but then it wouldn't be Microsoft would it? BTW I don't think the video drivers are the culprit as the shutdown hang occurs in VMware VMs, with or without VMware Tools installed.
    Hi there

    That might also be caused by problems with video drivers in the various Linux distros too since VMware will tend to use those drivers in the virtual BIOS of the VM's.

    It's possible that VBOX (Virtual Box) has managed to block / blacklist these drivers as does Opensuse Leap so no idea on that score.

    Opensuse blocks Nvidia and allows the NOUVEAU video driver to load as default -- it all works perfectly OK but for other reasons it's not the distro I want to use (quick point - limited software installation choice and hideous package manager) --if I'm using Linux I don't want over 4GB of software packages I'm never likely to use --although installation size is still tiny compared with Windows)

    Just seems amazing that these sort of identical programs are occurring on new Linux and Windows builds at the same time.

    Maybe Ms has been looking too much at Wagner's Opera's -- particularly "Goterdammerung" -- twilight of the Gods in the last of the 4 in the Ring cycle.

    The final act of the Opera describes it all -- "Hell and damnation" !!!!! We need to reset the whole process back to sensible starting points from where people can at least have a reasonable expectation that their systems won't crash on an update and failing components are automatically not installed.

    I shouldn't have to test installing systems with 97,000 zillion options where any one of them could cause a system fail -- decent selectable options should be easy to provide.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 46,476
    Windows 10 Home 64bit 21H1 and insider builds
       #131

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi there

    That might also be caused by problems with video drivers in the various Linux distros too since VMware will tend to use those drivers in the virtual BIOS of the VM's.

    It's possible that VBOX (Virtual Box) has managed to block / blacklist these drivers as does Opensuse Leap so no idea on that score.

    Opensuse blocks Nvidia and allows the NOUVEAU video driver to load as default -- it all works perfectly OK but for other reasons it's not the distro I want to use (quick point - limited software installation choice and hideous package manager) --if I'm using Linux I don't want over 4GB of software packages I'm never likely to use --although installation size is still tiny compared with Windows)

    Just seems amazing that these sort of identical programs are occurring on new Linux and Windows builds at the same time.

    Maybe Ms has been looking too much at Wagner's Opera's -- particularly "Goterdammerung" -- twilight of the Gods in the last of the 4 in the Ring cycle.

    The final act of the Opera describes it all -- "Hell and damnation" !!!!! We need to reset the whole process back to sensible starting points from where people can at least have a reasonable expectation that their systems won't crash on an update and failing components are automatically not installed.

    I shouldn't have to test installing systems with 97,000 zillion options where any one of them could cause a system fail -- decent selectable options should be easy to provide.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    VBox loads it's own proprietary video driver.
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 11,171
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #132

    kado897 said:
    VBox loads it's own proprietary video driver.
    .

    martyfelker said:
    One of the problems with trying to figure out (can't even call it debug) this or analogous problems it that there is no way that I know that an ordinary, or even extraordcinary, can see behind the shutdown screen as one can in Linux by a quick edit of the grub.cfg file. At least we'd know which service is hanging. Microsoft could open-source the Windows kernel - but then it wouldn't be Microsoft would it? BTW I don't think the video drivers are the culprit as the shutdown hang occurs in VMware VMs, with or without VMware Tools installed.
    Hi there

    That almost confirms the Video driver problems

    That might also be caused by problems with video drivers in the various Linux distros too since VMware will tend to use those drivers in the virtual BIOS of the VM's.

    It's possible that VBOX (Virtual Box) has managed to block / blacklist these drivers as does Opensuse Leap so no idea on that score.

    Opensuse blocks Nvidia and allows the NOUVEAU video driver to load as default -- it all works perfectly OK but for other reasons it's not the distro I want to use (quick point - limited software installation choice and hideous package manager) --if I'm using Linux I don't want over 4GB of software packages I'm never likely to use --although installation size is still tiny compared with Windows)

    Just seems amazing that these sort of identical programs are occurring on new Linux and Windows builds at the same time.

    Maybe Ms has been looking too much at Wagner's Opera's -- particularly Götterdämmerung -- twilight of the Gods in the last of the 4 in the Ring cycle.

    The final act of the Opera describes it all -- "Hell and damnation"

    For those youngsters "Operatically challenged" just Google for Brunhilda's final piece in Götterdämmerung.

    It's on you tube from various sources !!!!!!!! -- Ideally though Brunhilda should be a "Teutonic Blonde" although she's a brunette in this old classical concert recording".

    Voice is still amazing after all these years though. Makes a lot of those hideous street buskers with that new penance they are inflicting on people wanting to eat outside in any decent restaurant / public space with those hideous amplifiers and car battery power systems they carry around,

    -- Rant here but I'd ban power amplifiers being used by street buskers !!! - Decent musicians OK but do we need our outside dinners to be interrupted by noises louder than Road Drills. !! Anyway end of Rant.

    YouTube


    We need to reset the whole process back to sensible starting points from where people can at least have a reasonable expectation that their systems won't crash on an update and failing components are automatically not installed.

    I shouldn't have to test installing systems with 97,000 zillion options where any one of them could cause a system fail -- decent selectable options should be easy to provide.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 2,491
    Windows Insider Fast Ring LatestKUuuntu 20.10
       #133

    I agree with the sentiments that @jimbo45 has been posting. The testing has become difficult and with bugs like shutdown/restart/sleep most annoying - even using VMs. I hate to repeat rants I've made long ago, but we as testers of the latest Windows are being kept in the dark like mushrooms and feed a lot of garbage (at best!!)
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 472
    Windows 10 Pro 64bit v1803 build 17133.73
       #134

    don't worry, this skip around was a total bust here as well. after massive system crash and 3 days to figure out( so used to everything working perfectly) what really happened, i am back up and ready for the next bust. clean install after discovering main bios wiped out. a dual bios machine saved me. just saying as i realize my words don't help much.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 2,491
    Windows Insider Fast Ring LatestKUuuntu 20.10
       #135

    Sorry about your loss. What dual bios system are you using. From what my hardware vendor says Gigabyte Ultra Durable is no longer dual bios. Is she correct?

    As far as the shutdown bug is concerned. On a VM I let it run for an order and the circular wheel disappear. Good thing thlere is a power off. I'm going to test VBox on Linux before I go back to Windows.
      My Computers


  7. Posts : 472
    Windows 10 Pro 64bit v1803 build 17133.73
       #136

    kind of hard to give feedback on an OS that was only operational for about a couple of hours before failures of to many to name. how about bios lock.
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 2,491
    Windows Insider Fast Ring LatestKUuuntu 20.10
       #137

    Very interesting. I can confirm that in VBox this bug (both shutdown and restart) does NOT occur but in VMware (with the proprietary video drivers in VMware Tools) is DOES occur. Maybe we won't get a build that fixes this in the current week. No way of telling because we are mushrooms in the dark. Did M$ even replace D.S. do you know Shawn Brink?
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 15
    MS Win 10 Ent InsPrev x64 Ver 1809 Bld 18290.1000
       #138

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi folks

    tested this on an old HP Proliant Gen 8 microserver -- on shutdown the normally blue strip light (bottom of the server which indicates server status all OK) started flashing red and system wouldn't shut down -- had to unplug from mains and start server again to get the normal blue status. Fortunately the red is only an indication of something wrong with the OS processes and hardware power on / off functions so no damage.

    Note same process occurs if you simply do a "software reboot"

    Windows in its glorious way decided to trash the logs too so I can't even do a bit of "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" to analyse the fault.

    Please Windows always maintain the integrity of the logs no matter what--sometimes these are the only way to analyse and fix defects.

    Not sure if something in this build hoses up the ahcp power stuff -- I know this server is Old but it's run all the other builds without that type of incident !!!!

    Fortunately there's a small hardware log inside the server -- this indicated problems with ahcp / power with a NVIDIA GEforce 6xxx video card so perhaps Windows has problems with some nvidia cards -- anyway I've given up on this one for now. Funny though computer booted up OK with proper video.

    Anyway fortunately it's an old spare test server -- can't really send it to tip as it will also make a good extra NAS unit (built in 4 bay HDD facility plus space for DVD where I've poodlefaked it to use an SSD for the OS.)

    So looks like loads of people have had shutdown problems with this build --so I'll stick this one out.

    Looks like the error is in Windows Kernel hardware power functions and the graphic drivers.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Agreed. Keep those logs. Often it's all that will toss me a clue.
      My Computers


  10. Posts : 128
    Windows 10 Pro INSIDER
       #139

    martyfelker said:
    I have not yet tried it with VBox. I will try it after I update another VM to 18999. I do have confidence that thely probably have solved this problem already - we will see if we get a new build this week. But they might not even mention the fix in the release notes - have they acknowledged it anywhere?
    Yes as you are now aware it was added in 'Release Notes' After the deployment of 18999
    [Added] We’re investigating reports that some devices are getting stuck during shutdown or restart.

    And I agree with you that I don't think it is Video (Card/Driver/Settings).
    What is somewhat perplexing for me is that the usual install of 18999 for me went '100% normal' and with the normal (many of) Restarts during install without Any hanging issues.
    Just wondering if it could be the FIRST Take of 'welcome' or getting things ready screen which caused this hang?, as I recall something similar about this roughly 3 years ago (memory).

    Ash

    But yes, lets hope MS has been able to address this issue.
      My Computer


 

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