New Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 18941 (20H1) - July 18 Insider

IronZorg89 said:

I have to agree with @Winuser's argument. Even if it is known that Insiders Builds are prone to have bugs, how on God's green earth one is supposed to test something that cannot install. At a bare minimum, there shouldn't be any issue in installing those Insiders builds to be able to test them, otherwise this is "suicide"...My two cents' worth!!!

Microsoft isn't just testing the OS bits; they're testing update and install as well. I don't know what it is, but logic says something in the installation package is wrong, not the OS itself.

Wynona said:

I seem to be a little late to the party, but duties sometimes get in the way, as they have this past week. Writing tutorials for senior citizens new to computers or Windows 10 isn’t the easiest thing in the world . . . ask me and I’ll tell you.

OK, so a couple days ago Build 18941 was released and this morning is the first time I’ve been made aware of it. A Skype friend told me neither 18936 nor 18941 would install on his machine. I immediately checked my Insider Fast/Skip Ahead partition and saw that 18936 had successfully installed, so what’s up with that?

<Snip>

So, here I go … will it or won’t it install? Only the Shadow knows …

And here I am on the other side of Build 18941. At least my logic wasn't flawed this time; Build 18936 had installed so I went for Build 18941.

Windows Update did its job and Build 18941 is installed and ready for testing.

johngalt said:

Sorry, but no, it's not ridiculous. Ridiculous was the 2nd build from last year not being released because it affected tens of millions of installs. With Insider Preview builds, you cannot ever expect 100% reliability - ever. You already know this. Everyone in here that uses an Insider Preview build knows this. If there are 1, 2, or even 5 builds that don't work for a small number of systems, then the program is accomplishing what it set out to achieve - we're one big ẞeta test for future versions of Windows. Not current, future. Not released to the general public, but something you have to actively sign up for, install, and maintain.

If you're not ready to test (and more importantly, if you're not ready for things to break) you really should not be using Insider Preview builds at all.

I'm not trying to be a dick, though I am coming across that way, but it is a matter of fact. No matter how many employees Microsoft has, and how many testbeds they have, things will slip by when you take into account just how many lines of code are incorporated into the OS. But, instead of having things slip by in final versions, now, we Insiders, are the 'second line of defense' to (hopefully) stop major bugs from slipping past. Obviously, even this system is not foolproof - last year's October build proved that.

But complaining about ẞeta builds that don't work - that is not really cool. You know it may not work.

I worked with a user last year (or 2017, forgotten which) for a long time trying to get a particular set of builds working on a system very similar to my own - I was able to install each upgrade flawlessly, and he was not. Same chipset, same generation CPU, similar RAM. He ended up finally upgrading his machine. Meanwhile I had 0 issues for the entire time he was having issues (this went on for 3-4 months, IIRC).

This. Instead of complaining, start writing to folks, asking questions, gathering data for bug reports. That's what we're supposed to be doing as Insiders.

Exactly, John. If Microsoft were as inept as some in these Forums say, Windows would be a forgotten experiment by now and we'd all still be on DOS.

Knowing what is causing the problem and having a fix is NOT THE SAME THING. And as for people being guinea pigs - you signed up to be said guinea pigs. Don't want to be one? Remove yourself from the Insider Preview program.

I don't know how else to explain it to you.

This is Microsoft - they've yet to release a piece of software to manufacturing that is 100% bug free. Key words - RTM - as in released for people to use in the wild - tens, even hundreds, of millions of people, or more, perhaps even as high as into the billions.

Expecting that same company, who's had such a glamorous reputation for releasing buggy software, to release preview builds of an OS without flaws, is beyond ridiculous. As Wynona said - if it doesn't work, wait, try again next time.

I'm sorry, but yes, it can be frustrating (and with M$ is always is, 100% of the time) - but I could see complaints if this was an open build. Not a Preview build. Stuff just doesn't work all the time - things break. You signed up for it, you have to expect things not to work at some point in time.

Also: Question: If 3 users have identical machines side by side, and one cannot install a build, one can install but it is buggy, and one installs and it works fine - how do you fix something that you know is being caused by the storage controller (as they make mention of) when you don't even have any consistency with the issue? Youm, as a user, here, is having hte issue that it cannot be installed. Antoerh user with your same mobo, CPU and RAM and storage components is not - so what's the fix?

It is exactly for these kinds of problems that this program exists. It's not a simple matter of "Oh, change that driver there and it will work on everyone's machine." Uh, what if changing the driver reverses the situation, so that the one who could not install now can - but the one who could install now can't?

This isn't a matter of simplicity. And no one should expect it to be so.

johngalt said:

Knowing what is causing the problem and having a fix is NOT THE SAME THING. And as for people being guinea pigs - you signed up to be said guinea pigs. Don't want to be one? Remove yourself from the Insider Preview program.

I don't know how else to explain it to you.

This is Microsoft - they've yet to release a piece of software to manufacturing that is 100% bug free. Key words - RTM - as in released for people to use in the wild - tens, even hundreds, of millions of people, or more, perhaps even as high as into the billions.

Expecting that same company, who's had such a glamorous reputation for releasing buggy software, to release preview builds of an OS without flaws, is beyond ridiculous. As Wynona said - if it doesn't work, wait, try again next time.

I'm sorry, but yes, it can be frustrating (and with M$ is always is, 100% of the time) - but I could see complaints if this was an open build. Not a Preview build. Stuff just doesn't work all the time - things break. You signed up for it, you have to expect things not to work at some point in time.

Also: Question: If 3 users have identical machines side by side, and one cannot install a build, one can install but it is buggy, and one installs and it works fine - how do you fix something that you know is being caused by the storage controller (as they make mention of) when you don't even have any consistency with the issue? Youm, as a user, here, is having hte issue that it cannot be installed. Antoerh user with your same mobo, CPU and RAM and storage components is not - so what's the fix?

It is exactly for these kinds of problems that this program exists. It's not a simple matter of "Oh, change that driver there and it will work on everyone's machine." Uh, what if changing the driver reverses the situation, so that the one who could not install now can - but the one who could install now can't?

This isn't a matter of simplicity. And no one should expect it to be so.

Or as Harry S T said "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire".

Winuser said:

Yes I did volunteer to be a tester. MS no longer gives away the Insider builds for free. They want us to volunteer for free to test the new builds we should at least be able to install it. One build is understandable but when MS states that they not only know about the problem but what is causing it they should fix it before releasing a new build. I don't have a problem with some of the bugs not being fixed before the next release but not being able to install two builds in a row IMHO is ridiculous.

How dare they not give us Insider Builds for free! I mean, really! Sheesh!

Hmmm, what's wrong with what I just said? Thirty lashes with a wet noodle for me!

Back in 2014, Microsoft announced the Insider Program, everyone on Windows 7 and 8.xx got a free copy of Windows 10. I had three or four computers with Windows 7 and 8.xx on them; I joined the Insider Program and got Windows 10 Preview on all of 'em. Thus far, I've never been charged for an Insider Build. The last Windows OS I paid for was Windows 8.xx. So, I think I got my money's worth.

IIRC (and I could well not) up until June 2015 everyone on the planet was able to trade in their Windows 7 or 8.xx for Windows 10.

Every so often, I find an article that says Windows 7 or 8.xx can still be traded in for Windows 10.