New Windows 10 Insider Preview Fast+Skip Build 18941 (20H1) - July 18 Insider

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  1. Wynona's Avatar
    Posts : 23,313
    Windows 10 Skip Ahead Preview Build 18312
       #120

    IronZorg89 said: View Post
    I have to agree with @Winuser's argument. Even if it is known that Insiders Builds are prone to have bugs, how on God's green earth one is supposed to test something that cannot install. At a bare minimum, there shouldn't be any issue in installing those Insiders builds to be able to test them, otherwise this is "suicide"...My two cents' worth!!!
    Microsoft isn't just testing the OS bits; they're testing update and install as well. I don't know what it is, but logic says something in the installation package is wrong, not the OS itself.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2. Wynona's Avatar
    Posts : 23,313
    Windows 10 Skip Ahead Preview Build 18312
       #121

    Wynona said: View Post
    I seem to be a little late to the party, but duties sometimes get in the way, as they have this past week. Writing tutorials for senior citizens new to computers or Windows 10 isnít the easiest thing in the world . . . ask me and Iíll tell you.

    OK, so a couple days ago Build 18941 was released and this morning is the first time Iíve been made aware of it. A Skype friend told me neither 18936 nor 18941 would install on his machine. I immediately checked my Insider Fast/Skip Ahead partition and saw that 18936 had successfully installed, so whatís up with that?

    <Snip>

    So, here I go Ö will it or wonít it install? Only the Shadow knows Ö
    And here I am on the other side of Build 18941. At least my logic wasn't flawed this time; Build 18936 had installed so I went for Build 18941.

    Windows Update did its job and Build 18941 is installed and ready for testing.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3. Wynona's Avatar
    Posts : 23,313
    Windows 10 Skip Ahead Preview Build 18312
       #122

    johngalt said: View Post
    Sorry, but no, it's not ridiculous. Ridiculous was the 2nd build from last year not being released because it affected tens of millions of installs. With Insider Preview builds, you cannot ever expect 100% reliability - ever. You already know this. Everyone in here that uses an Insider Preview build knows this. If there are 1, 2, or even 5 builds that don't work for a small number of systems, then the program is accomplishing what it set out to achieve - we're one big ẞeta test for future versions of Windows. Not current, future. Not released to the general public, but something you have to actively sign up for, install, and maintain.

    If you're not ready to test (and more importantly, if you're not ready for things to break) you really should not be using Insider Preview builds at all.

    I'm not trying to be a dick, though I am coming across that way, but it is a matter of fact. No matter how many employees Microsoft has, and how many testbeds they have, things will slip by when you take into account just how many lines of code are incorporated into the OS. But, instead of having things slip by in final versions, now, we Insiders, are the 'second line of defense' to (hopefully) stop major bugs from slipping past. Obviously, even this system is not foolproof - last year's October build proved that.

    But complaining about ẞeta builds that don't work - that is not really cool. You know it may not work.

    I worked with a user last year (or 2017, forgotten which) for a long time trying to get a particular set of builds working on a system very similar to my own - I was able to install each upgrade flawlessly, and he was not. Same chipset, same generation CPU, similar RAM. He ended up finally upgrading his machine. Meanwhile I had 0 issues for the entire time he was having issues (this went on for 3-4 months, IIRC).

    This. Instead of complaining, start writing to folks, asking questions, gathering data for bug reports. That's what we're supposed to be doing as Insiders.
    Exactly, John. If Microsoft were as inept as some in these Forums say, Windows would be a forgotten experiment by now and we'd all still be on DOS.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    #123

    galileo said: View Post
    Respectfully, that is exactly opposite my point. From MS's perspective, the point is not providing Insiders with safety from failed installations. But, rather finding out what problems exist in the wild with what they are developing.

    Although, I grant you that once a given hardware/software is "known" to present an installation failure, it would be at least courteous on their part to put a block in place for that configuration.

    ...although again...they would need to continue testing against that particular configuration to determine at what point they have resolved the installation issues...
    Ms knows about the problem. They say they know what is causing the problem. Why don't they fix the problem before releasing another build? Like it or not, Admit it or not, We the Insiders helped MS save a lot of money by laying off employees and using us as testers. They could at least make sure new Insider builds are installable. One build I can understand. Two builds in a row is ridiculous.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5. johngalt's Avatar
    Posts : 2,014
    Windows 10 Pro X64 Insider Preview (Skip Ahead) latest build
       #124

    Knowing what is causing the problem and having a fix is NOT THE SAME THING. And as for people being guinea pigs - you signed up to be said guinea pigs. Don't want to be one? Remove yourself from the Insider Preview program.

    I don't know how else to explain it to you.

    This is Microsoft - they've yet to release a piece of software to manufacturing that is 100% bug free. Key words - RTM - as in released for people to use in the wild - tens, even hundreds, of millions of people, or more, perhaps even as high as into the billions.

    Expecting that same company, who's had such a glamorous reputation for releasing buggy software, to release preview builds of an OS without flaws, is beyond ridiculous. As Wynona said - if it doesn't work, wait, try again next time.

    I'm sorry, but yes, it can be frustrating (and with M$ is always is, 100% of the time) - but I could see complaints if this was an open build. Not a Preview build. Stuff just doesn't work all the time - things break. You signed up for it, you have to expect things not to work at some point in time.

    Also: Question: If 3 users have identical machines side by side, and one cannot install a build, one can install but it is buggy, and one installs and it works fine - how do you fix something that you know is being caused by the storage controller (as they make mention of) when you don't even have any consistency with the issue? Youm, as a user, here, is having hte issue that it cannot be installed. Antoerh user with your same mobo, CPU and RAM and storage components is not - so what's the fix?

    It is exactly for these kinds of problems that this program exists. It's not a simple matter of "Oh, change that driver there and it will work on everyone's machine." Uh, what if changing the driver reverses the situation, so that the one who could not install now can - but the one who could install now can't?

    This isn't a matter of simplicity. And no one should expect it to be so.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  6.    #125

    MS knows about the problem and they stated they know what is causing it. It's not expecting to much to think MS would fix this with either a update or in the new release itself. I can understand bugs when trying to run any new build. Not being able to install two builds in a row is ridiculous.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  7.    #126

    johngalt said: View Post
    Knowing what is causing the problem and having a fix is NOT THE SAME THING. And as for people being guinea pigs - you signed up to be said guinea pigs. Don't want to be one? Remove yourself from the Insider Preview program.

    I don't know how else to explain it to you.

    This is Microsoft - they've yet to release a piece of software to manufacturing that is 100% bug free. Key words - RTM - as in released for people to use in the wild - tens, even hundreds, of millions of people, or more, perhaps even as high as into the billions.

    Expecting that same company, who's had such a glamorous reputation for releasing buggy software, to release preview builds of an OS without flaws, is beyond ridiculous. As Wynona said - if it doesn't work, wait, try again next time.

    I'm sorry, but yes, it can be frustrating (and with M$ is always is, 100% of the time) - but I could see complaints if this was an open build. Not a Preview build. Stuff just doesn't work all the time - things break. You signed up for it, you have to expect things not to work at some point in time.

    Also: Question: If 3 users have identical machines side by side, and one cannot install a build, one can install but it is buggy, and one installs and it works fine - how do you fix something that you know is being caused by the storage controller (as they make mention of) when you don't even have any consistency with the issue? Youm, as a user, here, is having hte issue that it cannot be installed. Antoerh user with your same mobo, CPU and RAM and storage components is not - so what's the fix?

    It is exactly for these kinds of problems that this program exists. It's not a simple matter of "Oh, change that driver there and it will work on everyone's machine." Uh, what if changing the driver reverses the situation, so that the one who could not install now can - but the one who could install now can't?

    This isn't a matter of simplicity. And no one should expect it to be so.
    Or as Harry S T said "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the fire".
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  8. Steven Campoli's Avatar
    Posts : 659
    Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit
       #127

    Agreed, I learned being an insider, it's normal to have bugs. Thank God we can complaint about them here!
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    #128

    johngalt said: View Post
    Knowing what is causing the problem and having a fix is NOT THE SAME THING. And as for people being guinea pigs - you signed up to be said guinea pigs. Don't want to be one? Remove yourself from the Insider Preview program.

    I don't know how else to explain it to you.

    This is Microsoft - they've yet to release a piece of software to manufacturing that is 100% bug free. Key words - RTM - as in released for people to use in the wild - tens, even hundreds, of millions of people, or more, perhaps even as high as into the billions.

    Expecting that same company, who's had such a glamorous reputation for releasing buggy software, to release preview builds of an OS without flaws, is beyond ridiculous. As Wynona said - if it doesn't work, wait, try again next time.

    I'm sorry, but yes, it can be frustrating (and with M$ is always is, 100% of the time) - but I could see complaints if this was an open build. Not a Preview build. Stuff just doesn't work all the time - things break. You signed up for it, you have to expect things not to work at some point in time.

    Also: Question: If 3 users have identical machines side by side, and one cannot install a build, one can install but it is buggy, and one installs and it works fine - how do you fix something that you know is being caused by the storage controller (as they make mention of) when you don't even have any consistency with the issue? Youm, as a user, here, is having hte issue that it cannot be installed. Antoerh user with your same mobo, CPU and RAM and storage components is not - so what's the fix?

    It is exactly for these kinds of problems that this program exists. It's not a simple matter of "Oh, change that driver there and it will work on everyone's machine." Uh, what if changing the driver reverses the situation, so that the one who could not install now can - but the one who could install now can't?

    This isn't a matter of simplicity. And no one should expect it to be so.
    Yes I did volunteer to be a tester. MS no longer gives away the Insider builds for free. They want us to volunteer for free to test the new builds we should at least be able to install it. One build is understandable but when MS states that they not only know about the problem but what is causing it they should fix it before releasing a new build. I don't have a problem with some of the bugs not being fixed before the next release but not being able to install two builds in a row IMHO is ridiculous.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  10. Wynona's Avatar
    Posts : 23,313
    Windows 10 Skip Ahead Preview Build 18312
       #129

    Winuser said: View Post
    Yes I did volunteer to be a tester. MS no longer gives away the Insider builds for free. They want us to volunteer for free to test the new builds we should at least be able to install it. One build is understandable but when MS states that they not only know about the problem but what is causing it they should fix it before releasing a new build. I don't have a problem with some of the bugs not being fixed before the next release but not being able to install two builds in a row IMHO is ridiculous.
    How dare they not give us Insider Builds for free! I mean, really! Sheesh!

    Hmmm, what's wrong with what I just said? Thirty lashes with a wet noodle for me!

    Back in 2014, Microsoft announced the Insider Program, everyone on Windows 7 and 8.xx got a free copy of Windows 10. I had three or four computers with Windows 7 and 8.xx on them; I joined the Insider Program and got Windows 10 Preview on all of 'em. Thus far, I've never been charged for an Insider Build. The last Windows OS I paid for was Windows 8.xx. So, I think I got my money's worth.

    IIRC (and I could well not) up until June 2015 everyone on the planet was able to trade in their Windows 7 or 8.xx for Windows 10.

    Every so often, I find an article that says Windows 7 or 8.xx can still be traded in for Windows 10.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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