New Windows 10 Insider Preview Skip Ahead Build 18850 (20H1) - March 6 Insider

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  1.    #80

    jimbo45 said: View Post
    Hi there
    testing A/B is pointless in the extreme -- it should be a separate build if it has different things in it (or left out).

    It's like testing say a Jaguar car where some people don't have a steering wheel in it, others don't have brakes etc etc.

    The addition or removal of different components in the same build actually renders the whole build essentially meaningless for any relevant testing data to be obtained.

    Bad move ms -- can't understand the logifc behind this silly idea.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Maybe that they are looking for side effects of certain updates like in medicine/placebo tests ?
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  2. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 6,740
    Windows / Linux : Centos, Ubuntu, OpenSuse
       #81

    CountMike said: View Post
    Maybe that they are looking for side effects of certain updates like in medicine/placebo tests ?
    Hi there
    @CountMike

    I don't think you can compare it to that as a placebo is equivalent to say "the existing OS" and the Updates to the "New build".

    In any case leaving one component out could easily break the next update of the OS when you put it back in - either a failure due to some regression or due to incompatible operation of the two components combined so I still stand by my saying that if the OS has different components in it it should be tested as a separate build.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. johngalt's Avatar
    Posts : 1,711
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       #82

    Last I checked, the A/B testing they are doing change with every build released, at least for some users.

    In going along with Wynona's post, I'm not even sure about what the Start pop-up is (quite possibly because I never actually had it), and I *definitely* NEVER had the banner in the Settings page - ever. I don't care for some of the features they are including with the OS (really? F$#%^$% Emojis?) but grudgingly accept that, somewhere in the world, there are people who DO CARE about those very features I don't {insert relevant millennial joke here}. And, if I have a problem with the way they are conducting their testing, I can always revert to simply not testing anymore.

    Whether M$ will or will not change their methodology is open to debate - saying they won't is actually rather arrogant - after all, 20 years ago, we'd never have even considered uttering the word that Microsoft was supporting FOSS or incorporating Linux features into the their flagship OS. But, in counterpoint, they do have a track record of being almost obstinate as the proverbial immovable object when it comes to some of their offerings and services. With them, it's a toss-up -or crap shoot. Pick your poison.

    So, basically, unless you're an actual Microsoft employee, and have access to (for lack of a better word) insider information (not the Microsoft Insiders program, I mean to information that Microsoft Execs and upper level mgrs have regarding decisions they have made), you really cannot say anything more than what they have said to the public.

    As for the reason to have A/B testing - umm, did *anyone* consider that one of the reasons they are using this method is not just to test the features themselves, but to test the inclusion / removal of a feature after an update to make sure it doesn't break the update process itself if they later decide to enable / disable any particular feature?
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  4.    #83

    johngalt said: View Post
    As for the reason to have A/B testing - umm, did *anyone* consider that one of the reasons they are using this method is not just to test the features themselves, but to test the inclusion / removal of a feature after an update to make sure it doesn't break the update process itself if they later decide to enable / disable any particular feature?
    That's a very good point. But I still feel they could do this with a delayed update, instead of just depriving some insiders of the ability to use those features. Insiders who don't get a particular update, are being deprived, and that isn't fair to them. If M$ wanted to do the test you provide as a possibility, they could just delay certain aspects of an update, and then provide it a few days later as another feature update.
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  5. johngalt's Avatar
    Posts : 1,711
    WinX Pro x64 IP current
       #84

    Uh, well, I can't really refute that, except to say that A/B testing is not about fairness at all. In any scenario where it is employed.
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  6. f14tomcat's Avatar
    Posts : 39,830
    Triple boot - Win 10 Pro, Win 10 Pro Insider (2) - (and a sprinkling of VMs)
       #85

    johngalt said: View Post
    Uh, well, I can't really refute that, except to say that A/B testing is not about fairness at all. In any scenario where it is employed.
    Agree. Introducing "fairness" into the equation is tantamount to skewing the results by choosing random testers with a dose of bias. Contradictory.
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