Windows 10: Windows Defender to protect against apps that show coercive messages

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  1. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,761
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.3 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       01 Feb 2018 #20

    Different Issue


    Tony K said: View Post
    Oh please. Really? #1 is that they donít remove them, but rather donít include them and never have in the past. Secondly, that would be like someone walking into an auto dealership wanting to purchase less-costly model demanding that they get all the features of the more-costly model. One gets what one pays for under capitalism, yes?
    Nice "Straw Man" defence.

    I'm talking about a completely different issue:
    Up until now, policy availability was more or less identical for all professional versions of Windows 10. Turns out, this is no longer the case when the Windows 10 Anniversary Update is released.
    Some policies contain a note stating that they only apply to certain editions of Windows 10, with Windows 10 Pro not being listed as one of them.

    Note: This setting only applies to Enterprise, Education, and Server SKUs

    Furthermore, the corresponding Registry keys are not working either anymore which means that Pro users have no option to make changes to features affected by the change.

    There's even a thread about it on TenForums:
    Microsoft removes some policies from Windows 10 Pro

    Note:
    I should have said W10 Enterprise not W10 Workstation in the previous post.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    01 Feb 2018 #21

    Tony K said: View Post
    Thanks for posting the article, Shawn. :)

    The statement ďmaking unnecessary purchase decisionsĒ is absolutely correct. Everything one needs to maintain the Windows system is already included. All automatic these days as well.



    How about this instead? > MS knows that most of their user base is full of users that for lack of a better words - Not as tech savvy and get swindled. Do you have something against anyone protecting the ignorant and/or naÔve? This leads to 3rd party crapps to take over part or most of their system and heaven only knows how much telemetry if that be the case.



    Well stated, Faith.



    What access is that? Do you mean impermissible access? If so, perhaps you can show us how they do.



    Oh please. Really? #1 is that they donít remove them, but rather donít include them and never have in the past. Secondly, that would be like someone walking into an auto dealership wanting to purchase less-costly model demanding that they get all the features of the more-costly model. One gets what one pays for under capitalism, yes?



    Doesnít sound like you feel you have ďcomplete controlĒ if MS has ďaccess to your PCĒ. So why is it you donít you take your own advice of ďtake responsibilities for their own actions or lack thereofĒ and use a different OS? If not, sounds to me like youíll at least have to look for a different AV then.
    How about this instead? > MS knows that most of their user base is full of users that for lack of a better words - Not as tech savvy and get swindled. Do you have something against anyone protecting the ignorant and/or naÔve? This leads to 3rd party crapps to take over part or most of their system and heaven only knows how much telemetry if that be the case.
    I just happen to believe that any user of Windows 10 is not as dumb as you think they are. Everyone is possible for their own actions. Microsoft did not create Windows 10 for snowflakes that need a safe zone. I have faith in humanity, as Windows 10 is used world Wide by many people of various backgrounds that can use Windows 10 without MS as a baby sitter./
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 37,567
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro
       01 Feb 2018 #22

    lehnerus2000 said: View Post
    Nice "Straw Man" defence.
    LOL, yes, I gave it my best shot.

    I'm talking about a completely different issue:
    Well, thatís a horse of a different color. I see what you mean now. Although not included in group policy, there is a work around or on/off toggle for most.

    Tips and Tricks: I donít get them anymore, so Iíll assume itís not included any longer. Do you still get them?

    Store app suggestions Ė Toggle off in Setting app > Personalization > Start > or:

    Turn Off Automatic Installation of Suggested Apps in Windows 10 Apps Features Tutorials

    Lock screen:

    Starting in Windows 10 build 14271 and Windows 10 Anniversary Update (build 14393.0), this option will only work for the Windows 10 Enterprise, Education, and Server editions.

    Starting in Windows 10 build 16170, this option will now also include the Windows 10 Pro edition.
    Enable or Disable Lock Screen in Windows 10 Customization Tutorials

    All but this one > Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences policy > But, SFAIK donít allow it upon installation > If you enable it, then it will continue with feature updates. Same with Cortana and other features, although some can be toggled on or off.

    I think I covered all the items in the article. If I didnít, let me know.

    Most users obtained 10 via the free upgrade/update offer, did you? As Iím sure you know, although not publicly known, that could be achieved way past the deadline MS gave up until recently. Letís say I give you $200 with no strings attached and as you have you hand out I grab it back, then only give you $175 back. Are you going to complain that you now only have $175? Meaning > As soon as you update to a new feature update, that is now a totally new edition of Windows. If anything, I see MS giving back some features along the way. Donít you? And donít forget all the free features that come along with the feature updates; All without charge.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  4.    01 Feb 2018 #23

    I think some free software going too much, some users might not aware that "unwanted" software will install during installation process of the free app, because they will put the Agree/Disagree button in a confusion manner. But then its up to consumers to decide, what Microsoft did here looks like a "force" watchdog and also a privacy intrusion of consumers pc.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5. Ztruker's Avatar
    Posts : 6,252
    Windows 10 Pro X64 17134.191
       01 Feb 2018 #24

    I work with Windows users every day at the shop. Most (60% or more I'd say) do not have a clue what they are doing or how to go about doing anything other than use a browser to look at stuff on the internet or send and receive E-mail. Almost all use Google Chrome because it just showed up one day. They don't know how or why.

    If you change anything on their system or pop up messages that require them to respond they don't know what to do. Many will turn off their computer at that point by holding the power button in till it powers off. They don't apply updates, they never move to newer versions of programs because they don't know how to or they are afraid if they try to they will mess something up and it will never work again.

    If icons get moved on their desktop or even worse, get deleted, they panic.

    These are the people who are very susceptible to scare ware tactics and the ones MS is trying to help. I'm all for it.
    Ideally there should be a opt out capability for tech savy people but I like what MS is trying to do.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  6.    02 Feb 2018 #25

    I share the same experience as Ztruker.
    I have to format a PC today that has got two av packages installed, five browsers or so, several crappy PDF printers and the list goes on and on. And it was infected by malware, of course.

    As for original topic: we are just making guesses about how this new WD feature will work, and we don't know yet. Maybe is toggleable and/or configurable.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7. lehnerus2000's Avatar
    Posts : 1,761
    W7 Ultimate SP1 (64 bit), LM 18.3 MATE (64 bit), W10 Home 1703 (64 bit), W10 Pro 1703 (64 bit) VM
       02 Feb 2018 #26

    Tony K said: View Post
    All but this one > Turn off Microsoft consumer experiences policy > But, SFAIK don’t allow it upon installation > If you enable it, then it will continue with feature updates. Same with Cortana and other features, although some can be toggled on or off.

    I think I covered all the items in the article. If I didn’t, let me know.
    I didn't use any of them, so it didn't affect me.

    The last time MS did something like this that affected me, was when they stripped the "Start Menu" code from W8CP, after they discovered that people were disabling Metro in W8DP.

    The principle is clear, if MS doesn't like how users are using their own machines, MS will take action against them,
    "Do it our way or else!"

    Tony K said: View Post
    Most users obtained 10 via the free upgrade/update offer, did you?
    I got a copy of W10 Pro as a result of being in the W10 IP (no idea how it happened though).
    It's broken now.
    It won't correctly install the upgrade to the 1709.
    It constantly tries to download multiple GBs of files every time I turn the network on.
    It filled a 40GB partition with garbage (entirely) last time I left it running.

    I regret accepting the free W10 Home install on my W7 Home Premium laptop.
    It's broken now.
    It won't correctly install the mandatory upgrade to the 1709.
    It constantly tries to download multiple GBs of files every time I turn the network on.

    Both of them require clean installs from an ISO to fix them.

    Tony K said: View Post
    If anything, I see MS giving back some features along the way. Don’t you? And don’t forget all the free features that come along with the feature updates; All without charge.
    Service Packs were also free. :)

    What real improvements (not new "freebies") have they added to W10 Home or W10 Pro?
    Instead of fixing the actual issues, all MS did was grudgingly add some sliders to try to silence user complaints about Privacy, Telemetry & Updates.

    It's like when MS added a "Start Button" that opened the "Start Screen" (on W8.1) even though they knew that users wanted the "Start Menu" back.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    02 Feb 2018 #27

    I hope this is not the start of a fully bloated Defender.
    What's next, warn us about old/not up to date apps and so on..
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 32
    Windows 10 Pro x64 (1709)
       02 Feb 2018 #28

    I think Driver Booster is one of the worst - great tool for updating drivers however at the end of every scan it tells you that the PRO version is better and that you need to upgrade to do more things that frankly aren't worth it!
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    02 Feb 2018 #29

    Jack07 said: View Post
    I hope this is not the start of a fully bloated Defender.
    What's next, warn us about old/not up to date apps and so on..
    I will just stop using it and get something else.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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