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  1.    09 Dec 2016 #1
    Join Date : Apr 2016
    Posts : 114
    Win 7,8.1 ,10

    Run a VM win10 for gaming?


    Is there a way to run win10 for gaming in a VM? I almsot want to run win10 VM in win7 or 8.1 or a sparsely updated win10...
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  2.    10 Dec 2016 #2
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 5,878
    Windows10

    Sure but a better way is to install windows 10 in a virtual hard drive.
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  3.    10 Dec 2016 #3
    Join Date : Apr 2016
    Posts : 114
    Win 7,8.1 ,10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    Sure but a better way is to install windows 10 in a virtual hard drive.
    Well I'd like the OS in a VM so when ti crashes it dose not really screw things up very badly. At least a vm should be a bit more patchable/fixable than win10.
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  4.    10 Dec 2016 #4

    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyDSMlee View Post
    Well I'd like the OS in a VM so when ti crashes it dose not really screw things up very badly. At least a vm should be a bit more patchable/fixable than win10.
    Hi there

    main problem with using a VM for gaming will be the graphics -- you'll need to ensure that the VM runs graphics as near in Native mode as possible - and has GPU acceleration / 3D etc etc.

    You won't be able to do that properly with VMWARE workstation / Player or VBOX.

    You'll either have to try using HYPER-V and enable passthru on the graphics card -- not as easy to do if you don't know VM's -- and HYPER-V doesn't have decent USB facilities if you need those too.

    If you really want to run this type of VM you really need to look at something like VMware's ESXI -- that will work a treat but it's a bit picky to set up and needs exactly the right hardware (especially the Network interface cards) or it will fail.

    VM's can run things like photoshop, video editing, video playback etc these days - but serious gaming is another proposition where you will need to be able to access the hardware directly (GPU, CPU, Graphics particularly) or the experience will be a bit of a flop. Typical VM's used for software development / application testing etc such as used by VMWARE player / workstation or VBOX isolate the hardware quite a lot and tend to rely on a Virtual Bios.

    If you are technically more interested read further on the differences between full and Paravirtualisation.

    This should get you started -- light "Bed time Reading" !!

    operating system - What is the difference between Full, Para and Hardware assisted virtualiazation.? - Stack Overflow

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  5.    10 Dec 2016 #5
    Join Date : Feb 2015
    Bamberg Germany
    Posts : 17,552
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    Sure but a better way is to install windows 10 in a virtual hard drive.
    Yep! This is the much better choice.

    If your worried about crashing or "screwing things up" make regular disk images, specifically before any Windows cumulative updates and version upgrades, or driver updates.

    The thing about using a VM for gaming is, latency.
    Even with my high powered machine, using an M.2 PCIe SSD for a system drive, and a Samsung 1TB 850 EVO for my Hyper-V virtual machines, I have noticed I still have some slight latency sometimes if my HOST and VM have a lot going on in the background, and I give all my VMs 8 virtual processors and 8GB of RAM! It boots faster than a bare metal machine(as a lot of the services are vampired off from the HOST), but when I have both busy, opening & running somethings can take a second to "click", in gaming I'm sure that is a deal killer.

    So like @cereberus said, go with a VHD native boot.

    See this tutorial from @Kari : Hyper-V - Native Boot VHD - Windows 10 Tutorials
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  6.    10 Dec 2016 #6

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff S View Post
    Yep! This is the much better choice.

    If your worried about crashing or "screwing things up" make regular disk images, specifically before any Windows cumulative updates and version upgrades, or driver updates.

    The thing about using a VM for gaming is, latency.
    Even with my high powered machine, using an M.2 PCIe SSD for a system drive, and a Samsung 1TB 850 EVO for my Hyper-V virtual machines, I have noticed I still have some slight latency sometimes if my HOST and VM have a lot going on in the background, and I give all my VMs 8 virtual processors and 8GB of RAM! It boots faster than a bare metal machine(as a lot of the services are vampired off from the HOST), but when I have both busy, opening & running somethings can take a second to "click", in gaming I'm sure that is a deal killer.

    So like @cereberus said, go with a VHD native boot.

    See this tutorial from @Kari : Hyper-V - Native Boot VHD - Windows 10 Tutorials
    Hi there
    Native VHD boot is also a good idea but remember I think the OP wanted to retain W7 as host.

    Problem with a Native VHD boot is that you can't concurrently access the host -- so if you want to do this why not go the whole hog and simply DUAL BOOT the machine anyway.

    Gaming doesn't of itself require really fast I/O but will want to squeeze every last piece of assistance from the GPU / Graphics. This is where these things like VHD's fail compared to running "bare metal".

    The latency will be due to the Graphics performance on your machine as far as I can see rather than CPU / SSD combo - your CPU should also allow hyperthreading -- a lot of standard INTEL CPU's don't always have this feature.

    The VM also needs to be able to access the CPU directly too for maximum performance - using a VHD is a bit of a cludge IMO. Once you start "Virtualising" the processor you are losing performance here which will be noticed on some games.

    Personally if I were a serious Gamer (I'm not though) I'd have a 100% dedicated machine specifically designed for that purpose.

    Remember also whether using a VHD or not each Windows machine needs a Licence.
    Also you'll need W10 PRO to use HYPER-V.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  7.    10 Dec 2016 #7
    Join Date : Apr 2016
    Posts : 114
    Win 7,8.1 ,10
    Thread Starter

    I don't mind w7-w10 as host OS, I just wind up reinstalling windose 6 times a year or so due to random crashing(it only takes one time to mess it up correctly even its its 2 or 4 times a year) or updates(this has seems every few win10 update is the kiss of death or breaks a part of windose you need for daily operation) or just other random crap that happens. It all piles up to force me to reinstall.

    I pretty much run this every time I think its acting funny or on hard reboots but I still need a better way to verify files,ect....



    @ECHO OFF

    TIMEOUT /T 5 /NOBREAK

    sfc /scannow

    TIMEOUT /T 5 /NOBREAK


    DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth


    pause
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  8.    10 Dec 2016 #8
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 5,878
    Windows10

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo45 View Post
    Hi there
    Native VHD boot is also a good idea but remember I think the OP wanted to retain W7 as host.
    Problem with a Native VHD boot is that you can't concurrently access the host -- so if you want to do this why not go the whole hog and simply DUAL BOOT the machine anyway.
    Main reason to use a vhd is that it does not mess around with existing partitions, no need to create new ones, resize old ones etc. It only adds a boot entry to the system partitions etc. If something glitches, the risk to the current install is much lower, and you can get rid of the vhd simply by deleting one file. This is a good solution for an OS which is possibly only going to be used for one application.
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  9.    10 Dec 2016 #9
    Join Date : Apr 2016
    Posts : 114
    Win 7,8.1 ,10
    Thread Starter

    I HATE downtime and reinstalling stuff, I can fix some of this with macrium reflect, BUT app data and my documents where games and stuff like to save stuff is more tricky to restore. I've found most win10 issues with porting over an older appdata fodder are permission related so I am getting better with quickly restoring the OS but it takes a free day or a week if I am busy. ><

    Why can't anyone make a proper verification program, scan everything log it scan it once in a while if errors are found restore it if they are system file locked do it via a reboot. Seems like a no brainier to me, oh and restore points do mess with your files so I have moved anything I can off C drive.....
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  10.    11 Dec 2016 #10

    Hi there

    as far as Apps and Data are concerned you are asking for something impossible for an OS to provide -- simple example say you simply update a WORD Document -- how on earth is the OS to know whether the update is good, or even if it's what you wanted to do.

    Same with Games etc -- playing a game will change user data 00 the OS can't possibly know if that data is correct or whether you are playing the Game properly.

    You'd need some serious sort of A.I here (Artificial Intelligence) -- and that sort of A.I we could be generations off even if we ever find it.

    For DATA I'd use still use Macrium or similar to take incremental / differential backups every so often - quick to run and you can restore back as many versions as you have backups for -- and very much quicker than full restores.

    Keep DATA on another HDD / Partition to the OS so if you do restore the OS you won't get problems with DATA.

    It ALWAYS makes sense to keep OS on a separate HDD / partition.

    The same is even true on a VM - you can create a 2nd Virtual drive or even a second partition on a virtual drive. Store your data on this and the OS on the primary HDD. Same mechanism's for backup / restore / partitioning as for a physical HOST OS.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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