Windows 10: Best Virtual machine software to try W10 TP on Windows 8.1

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  1.    02 Nov 2014 #21

    Hi there
    @Kari

    Is HYPER-V reasonably capable of running LINUX VM's --I know it was designed primarily for WINDOWS GUESTS but it should in theory be capable of running almost any OS as a Guest.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 11,235
    Windows 10 Pro
       02 Nov 2014 #22

    I run CentOS, SUSE, Mint and the obligatory toy Ubuntu. Especially CentOS and SUSE have none whatsoever issues, Red Hat Linux and CentOS are even officially supported, latest versions of both have Hyper-V integration tools integrated.

    I remember posting a screenshot about CentOS Hyper-V vm accessing Windows hos shares in one of your network issue threads, can't find it now.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    02 Nov 2014 #23

    Second, who on earth would like to do some serious virtualization in a system with less than 4 GB of RAM? If you have 4 GB or more it's quite natural to assume you have an x64 version of Windows.
    This is virtualization 101. Regardless which form of virtualiztion you use, RAM is the determening factor.

    For a Windows 7 host running 1 virtual Linux partition, you can get away with 3 GB of RAM because Linux is OK with 1 GB.

    For a Windows host running 1 virtual other Windows OS, 4GB is the minimum - 2GB for the host and 2GB for the virtual partition.

    I sometimes run several virtualk partitions in paralell. For that you should have 8GB of RAM.

      My ComputerSystem Spec


  4. Posts : 11,235
    Windows 10 Pro
       03 Nov 2014 #24

    whs said: View Post
    For a Windows host running 1 virtual other Windows OS, 4GB is the minimum - 2GB for the host and 2GB for the virtual partition.
    Agree.

    You can of course use Windows on vm with just 512 MB but it will be sluggish. One thing in Hyper-V I like is the possibility to use dynamic RAM, vm takes only what it needs. The below is a 50 second animated GIF following the use of RAM during the Update & Reboot cycle on a W10 Build 9860 x64 vm with has dynamic RAM enabled, starting and minimum RAM 512 MB and max RAM 6 GB. It shows in real time how much Windows vm demands RAM from host during this desktop > update > reboot > back to desktop cycle. Click the image if animation is not shown:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The vm gets only the set minimum during the whole process because the demand stays low. Only when back to desktop Hyper-V assigns first 20 MB more to 532 MB then another 20 MB to 552 MB and stays there if I don't launch any apps (for example starting Word 2013 ups the RAM demand to about 600 MB and Hyper-V gives the vm 200 MB more, up to 768 MB).
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    03 Nov 2014 #25

    Hi there

    Thanks -- found the relevant info.

    @Kari - have you tried the minimal HYPER-V server (stripped down off W2012 Server I think). I'd like to try and make a really LEAN - almost bare metal OS as a HYPERVISOR and then try running VM's on it.

    I did a while ago try messing around with ESXI which is probably great for Businesses - but getting a "White box" to work with it is a bit tricky and there's no LOCAL console (at least not a free one) so you have to access VM's via another machine. The other thing is that it's (or I've found it impossible) to get SOUND to work with ESXI VM's - that's not a normal issue in work computers -- or not until recently -- A lot of businesses now use Instant messaging so Video and sound will become more important on Virtual desktops in the future.

    XEN might also be an interesting idea.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  6. Posts : 11,235
    Windows 10 Pro
       03 Nov 2014 #26

    @jimbo45

    Try the Hyper-V Server 2012 R2:
    TechNet Evaluation Center said:
    Hyper-V Server is a dedicated stand-alone product that contains the hypervisor, Windows Server driver model, virtualization capabilities, and supporting components such as failover clustering, but does not contain the robust set of features and roles as the Windows Server operating system. As a result, Hyper-V Server produces a small footprint and requires minimal overhead. Organizations consolidating servers where no new Windows Server licenses are required or where the servers being consolidated are running an alternative OS may want to consider Hyper-V Server.
    You can download it from TechNet Evaluation Center, it's free and has no trial time limitations:
    Try Hyper-V Server 2012 R2 | TechNet Evaluation Center
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    03 Nov 2014 #27

    Hi there

    Thanks

    I've actually Got that one -- I downloaded it before my TechNet sub expired (last sunday !!!).

    I'll try it first as a VM (I know VM on a VM won't be the best) but I've got a couple of spare SSD's so it shouldn't run like a One legged dog on a smooth icepond.

    I've got plenty of time this week to play with all sorts of stuff -- real (????) work comes in mega fits and starts - huge amounts of work in a short time and then a decent quiet period !!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  8. Posts : 11,235
    Windows 10 Pro
       03 Nov 2014 #28

    strollin said: View Post
    Attacking my geekness? Really Kari?
    No, I did not attack your geekness. I posted my honest opinion based on my own criteria. For me the “geekness” is a keen and wide interest in computing with some knowledge based in factual information, capability to differ “I think so therefore it must be a fact” from real factual information and willingness to admit that my opinion is subjective.

    The thread title is “Best Virtual machine software to try W10 TP on Windows 8.1”. My change of heart regarding your “geekness” was based on following discussion around this subject. My comments in between the post quotes:

    Kari said: View Post
    I prefer Windows' own native Hyper-V, to set it up in your Windows 8.1 Pro and install Windows 10 Tech Preview, simply follow the instructions in this tutorial: Hyper-V virtualization - Setup and Use in Windows 10
    Although tutorial is written to Windows 10, the Hyper-V in Windows 8 Pro & 8.1 Pro works and functions exactly the same way.
    In that post I gave the OP a valid opinion, also clearly presented as an opinion (I prefer…).


    strollin said: View Post
    The OP asked for the LEAST HEAVY VM software which would automatically exclude Hyper-V which requires Win 8.x PRO and 64-bit making it the most demanding VM software I have ever encountered.
    You tell the OP that Hyper-V is excluded, the word “automatically” even emphasizes that you are not telling just your opinion but a clear automatic fact.


    Kari said: View Post
    First, Hyper-V uses less host resources than for instance VMware Player.
    Second, who on earth would like to do some serious virtualization in a system with less than 4 GB of RAM? If you have 4 GB or more it's quite natural to assume you have an x64 version of Windows.
    With the above post I am explaining why I think your previous reply was not true and valid, explaining (clearly an opinion) that serious virtualization needs in any case an amount of RAM which can benefit of x64; as we know using x86 or x64 is never an economical issue because you use the same product key to install an x86 Windows or x64 Windows.

    I also give a fact: Hyper-V uses less host resources, especially when vm is set up to use dynamical RAM.


    strollin said: View Post
    I find it interesting that I have 7 machines in the room I'm currently in. All 7 are capable of running VMWare Player yet only 1 of them can run Hyper-V.
    This post in context to what you had said earlier was for me the straw that broke the camel’s back. It is very clearly meant to support your earlier “automatically excluding Hyper-V” pseudo fact, based on the real fact that you have chosen to install an x64 version of Windows 8 / 8.1 / 10 only on one of your virtualization capable machines, making it sound as if even if you had installed an x64 version of Windows 8 / 8.1 / 10 on other of your virtualization capable machines it would not run.

    That, of course, is not the case: if a machine running an x64 Windows is capable to run VMware, it is capable to run Hyper-V. Ironically, your statement could also be read as clear support for Hyper-V, reading what you wrote can also be understood that Hyper-V runs on 100% (1 of 1 is 100%) of those virtualization capable machines you have an x64 Windows 8 / 8.a / 10 installed .

    I repeat: I did not attack your “geekness”. I am used to say what I think and in this case the pseudo facts of yours really reduced your point count in my “book of geeks I follow”.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 680
    W10 Pro (desktop), W10 (laptop), W10 (laptop), W10Pro (tablet)
       03 Nov 2014 #29

    Why are you taking the facts I have stated and considering them as opinion?

    I agree that Hyper-V is a very capable VM system, not arguing that. I'm simply stating the fact that to even install Hyper-V, the cost of admission is high. Forget the 7 machines I mentioned earlier, let's only consider 2 of my machines. A desktop running an i7 processor, 64-bit Windows and 16G of RAM and a laptop running an i7 processor, 64-bit Windows and 12G of RAM. With VMWare, on either of these machines, I can run 64-bit Win 10 TP VMs effortlessly. However, I cannot run Hyper-V on either because the desktop has Win 7 Ultimate and the laptop has Win 8.1 Standard. In order to run Win 10 TP with Hyper-V I would need to upgrade these machines to Win 8.1 Pro. Therefore, Hyper-V has heavier requirements than VMWare.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 11,235
    Windows 10 Pro
       03 Nov 2014 #30

    You don't get my point.

    This is the OP's thread, not yours. An OP who according to specs has a Windows 8.1 Pro edition and asks advice for a virtualization platform for that OS version and edition. The "fact" that you don't have Pro edition is not a valid argument to state as a fact that Hyper-V is automatically out, comes not in question.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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