creating a VM

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  1. timlab55's Avatar
    Posts : 108
    Windows 10
       #1

    creating a VM


    I would like to create a VM, and I have watch video's on how to do this. The end product of what I'm looking for is to install Windows 11 on my F drive (SSD (500gb)). I've already found and made my windows 11.ISO file as well which is over on my C drive.
    If I create a VM and try and run the windows 11 ISO file, I get either one of these errors (See attached Problem #1 and #2). So what am I doing wrong here?
    Thanks
    Dancreating a VM-problem-1.pngcreating a VM-problem-2.png
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  2. NavyLCDR's Avatar
    Posts : 16,024
    Windows 10 Pro
       #2

    You are likely missing the opportunity to press any key. When that happens, click on the Action menu, then Reset. When it resets, click quickly in the big black window space and hit any key.
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  3. timlab55's Avatar
    Posts : 108
    Windows 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    Never mind and I thank you for answering. I found a video "How To Install Windows 11 On A computer using Oracle VM"" and now I'm happy on how to install Windows 11. Kind of disappointing, but I hope with updates they might be answered.
    I did find out so far, that Google Chrome works just as good as on Windows 10. I also found that my real old program called "Classic Shell" works just as well. So I'm not completely lost.
    Again
    Thanks
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  4. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,888
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #4

    Hi there
    For "beginners" with VM's ot's usually easier (IMO at least) to use VMWare's free VMware player application -- especially if you don't have pro, enterprise or pro for workstations editions of W10 as HYPER-V isn't (at least not without a lot of fuss) available.

    Then it's a doddle - and you can by altering the configuration file (the .vmx file --open with notepad or similar) you can add a delay to the boot message so you've plenty of time to respond to the "please enter any key to boot from this CD" message.

    Another good use for VM's --running legacy hardware on a legacy OS -- here I've created a "Virtual music CD" via NERO, mounted it via Alcohol 52% as a "Virtual CD drive" - win XP doesn't have built in virtual DVD/CD mounter like W10/W11 and now am recording it to a Minidisc on a professional minidisc recorder (the one with no drm etc ) . I still also use a small portable minidisc recorder for music - much nicer than fiddling around with mobile phones etc and quality of sound a lot better - it should be as it's made via a pro recorder.

    creating a VM-screenshot_20210719_073630.png

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  5. ClippyBeer's Avatar
    Posts : 65
    DOS 6.22 Windows for Workgroups 3.11
       #5

    The other advantage of VMWare Player over the other virtualizers - 3D acceleration for guest OSes if the host OS supports it.







    I have it running in a window so you can see the guest OS desktop (XP) but it runs equally well in full-screen. To the best of my knowledge neither Hyper-V nor VirtualBox support 3D acceleration. VMWare player is probably the only way to run legacy games in modern Windows systems.
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  6. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 10,888
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #6

    ClippyBeer said:
    The other advantage of VMWare Player over the other virtualizers - 3D acceleration for guest OSes if the host OS supports it.







    I have it running in a window so you can see the guest OS desktop (XP) but it runs equally well in full-screen. To the best of my knowledge neither Hyper-V nor VirtualBox support 3D acceleration. VMWare player is probably the only way to run legacy games in modern Windows systems.
    Hi there
    @ClippyBeer

    Not quite true but probably "True in practice" for loads of people.

    HYPER-V, ESXi and KVM/QEMU which are genuine Hypervisors only use a small OS overhead to run VM's on them. They also have the ability to run the VM's on "Native" hardware rather than the paravirtualised systems that VBOX and VMWare use.

    However to do this (pass thru hardware to get near native performance) you need to be able to pass thru the actual Graphics and other hardware directly to the VM which means having at least a dedicated graphics / GPU device for the VM. If you also have a multi CPU system then pass thru a dedicated CPU and any physical disk drive as a raw device.

    Given sufficient hardware you can run these sorts of VM's at almost native performance so playing games should not pose any problem. Set IOMMAX to on in the BIOS (or equivalent) and create the VM.

    However running really old OS'es such as XP then VMWare is your best bet as HYPER-V is unlikely to be able to use old XP drivers -- especially SATA / IDE stuff directly and you'll probably end up with an unbootable VM. I'm not saying it's impossible -- but VMWare definitely has better support for older OS'es.

    Even on XP do add / install the VMWare tools package on the VM the first time you boot though as this ensures video / mouse etc drivers are fixed for these old OS'es.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  7. ClippyBeer's Avatar
    Posts : 65
    DOS 6.22 Windows for Workgroups 3.11
       #7

    That's a good theory - care to put it to the test? Create some VMs with HYPER-V, ESXi and KVM/QEMU and see if they can be setup for DirectX/Direct3D gaming? Post your results because I've searched and the internet has so far concluded that for DirectX/Direct3D gaming in a virtualized environment VMWare is the only way.
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  8. Hopachi's Avatar
    Posts : 1,290
    Linux: Fedora 3x 64-bit / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit in VM
       #8

    ClippyBeer said:
    That's a good theory - care to put it to the test? Create some VMs with HYPER-V, ESXi and KVM/QEMU and see if they can be setup for DirectX/Direct3D gaming? Post your results because I've searched and the internet has so far concluded that for DirectX/Direct3D gaming in a virtualized environment VMWare is the only way.
    My TL;DR:
    From what I've tested so far, you're right.

    I'm curious what others may have tried though.
    My tests consists of simpler 2D cases.

    There is some basic stuff that works but this cannot be compared with the many things that already run under VMWare.
    This comparison alone is based on the para-virtualized GPU, not even looking into more complex things like GPU pass-through, something that the average user will not have at disposal.

    I tried Hyper-V and KVM/QEMU with the built-in para virtual graphics.
    They both have very smooth cursor movements, great CPU performance but the para virtualized graphics isn't sufficient.

    And here are some details in what I've tried so far... things I already got up and running under VMWare.
    I start mostly with 2D tests.
    Basic 2D classic Command and Conquer titles:
    These are DX5 - DX8 ddraw titles like Dune 2K and Red Alert 2 respectively and need 16-bit graphics, this is an issue for older titles already. Missing 8-bit screen resolution (like good old StarCraft 1...) or 16-bit screen resolution (like Dune 2K or Red Alert 1...) stops all testing here. From here you try to get the right GPU setting in VM, try Windows compatibility if GPU is ok then or as last resort: other screen overlay like cnc-ddraw or DxWnd (work both perfectly in a host OS natively) that allows to run older games in 32-bit overlay mode. This reduces performance and framerate, gets the testing job done but runs poorly in a VM. Running the game directly without extra hooks and overlays is still the way to go when running in a VM.

    Hyper-V: with or without sound.
    These mentioned games work surprisingly in Hyper-V with required old video modes, without sound (not so convenient depending on game) since we need to run these required 16-bit graphics without enhanced session. But some (if not most) games fail to run without sound in the first place. Activating enhanced session/mode in VM gives you sound under Hyper-V and 32-bit screen resolution only; so older games running in 8 or 16 bit graphics will fail to run due to ''missing GPU modes''. In this case we use the screen overlay / hooks I mentioned earlier, with reduced performance due to poor graphics.
    3D can be attempted and will run theoretically BUT if the game 'checks' and expects some driver acceleration, it will fail here.

    In KVM/QEMU the provided QXL (default for Windows VM) graphics works in 32-bit graphic mode but produces black screens for both Red Alert 2 and Dune 2K. Though I hear game sound in the background, it's unplayable so far. Again, with the mentioned screen overlay / hooks, the games run with reduced performance. Extra tweaking is required. Try getting more out of the virtual GPU, through settings, switch adapter type (it boils down to QXL, VGA or VirtIO) and install newer virtio drivers when available.

    3D titles fail entirely without the bare minimum GPU acceleration, but this isn't provided in the basic paravirtual graphics by design.
    We may see some improvement with time and use cases, where some tweaks can improve things. But so far you either run natively or run in VM what runs there, be it basic 2D, or go high-end with pass-through of hardware where possible or simply run stuff in VMWare if it provides the best virtualized game performance that way.
    Last edited by Hopachi; 21 Jul 2021 at 14:33. Reason: updated text
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  9. cereberus's Avatar
    Posts : 12,396
    Windows10
       #9

    NavyLCDR said:
    You are likely missing the opportunity to press any key. When that happens, click on the Action menu, then Reset. When it resets, click quickly in the big black window space and hit any key.
    Yeah - this is a long standing issue with UEFI installations in Hyper-V. You just do not get enough time to press the cd/dvd prompt first time as it only gives around 5 seconds, and it takes over 3 to load the HyperV window. So you nearly always have to press reset, then enter key.

    I have just had a thought - I am going to try and load 2 new dvds and all pointing to same iso, and change boot order so both are at top, then when first craps out, next one will kick in.
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  10. cereberus's Avatar
    Posts : 12,396
    Windows10
       #10

    @NavyLCDR, @Kari (who told me the reset trick years ago), with my new faster pc, I still have to be pretty quick after a reset.

    My new idea of simply having 4 DVD drives all pointing to same boot iso worked a charm.

    I now get 14 seconds to press CD/DVD button instead of 1 second (2 5 seconds taken by initial screen load).

    That is enough time to quaff a wee dram as well LOL.

    I have googled for ways to increase the time to press a dvd many times and people said it was not possible.

    Sometimes the answer is so simple, it is amazing nobody has ever suggested this before. @Kari if you wish to add this as a tip to your website, feel free (so long as I am accredited of course).

    I am going to post this in tips never seen thread.
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