creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine


  1. Posts : 7
    win 7 pro 64
       #1

    creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine


    hello all,
    forgive me if i'm asking something that's addressed elsewhere...

    new member, longtime reader of your forums...

    i have questions regarding creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine...i'm getting conflicting answers.
    yes gen 9 will support 7 pro 64 as vm in hyper-v, and no, gen 9 won't support 7.

    i don't have the 10 machine yet, looking for someone who has done it, namely a win7 vhd backup image imported to THE HYPER-V ENVironment as a VM. or a clean install of my retail 7 pro if necessary

    my local guys, who system i'm still working on 12+ years later, have what i want(below listed i3 9th gen) however dude answered my query as follows:

    me: 'i'd like to be able to use my current install of 7, as is, w/ hyper-v as a VM''

    them:
    ''Unfortunately, I donít think your load of 7 will work on our current PCs. After the 6th generation intel processors, they dropped all support for Windows 7. 7th Gen would work with some workarounds, but since 8th and 9th Generation, they do not work at all as far as I know''

    veritas, i'm a big fan of, answer:
    ''In my opinion, I guess that the differences between Intel CPU generations have no problem when you run Windows 7 as Hyper-V VM on Windows 10 because Hyper-V layer can basially absorb the differences of CPU generations. The Hyper-V on old CPU cannot emulate the new CPU but the Hyper-V on new CPU can emulate the old CPU.

    I think that you can recover your Win 7 as a VM on Win 10 using the backup data that was backed up on Windows 7 without using Veritas System Recovery 21.''

    ty,
    ts

    machine im using:
    WIN7-PC
    Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr_escrow.200102-1707)
    Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
    System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
    System Model: MS-7514
    BIOS: Default System BIOS
    Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.3GHz
    Memory: 7168MB RAM

    machine i'm buyng locally:

    Intel Core i3 9100 3.6GHz 9MB Core
    8GB DDR4 Memory
    250GB Solid State Hard drive
    2TB SATA Storage Drive
    Full ATX case w/400 Watt Power Supply
    2GB GeForce GTX 1050 Video Card
    DVD-RW
    Windows 10 Professional
      My Computer

  2. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 9,259
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #2

    sneauxwolf said:
    hello all,
    forgive me if i'm asking something that's addressed elsewhere...

    new member, longtime reader of your forums...

    i have questions regarding creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine...i'm getting conflicting answers.
    yes gen 9 will support 7 pro 64 as vm in hyper-v, and no, gen 9 won't support 7.

    i don't have the 10 machine yet, looking for someone who has done it, namely a win7 vhd backup image imported to THE HYPER-V ENVironment as a VM. or a clean install of my retail 7 pro if necessary

    my local guys, who system i'm still working on 12+ years later, have what i want(below listed i3 9th gen) however dude answered my query as follows:

    me: 'i'd like to be able to use my current install of 7, as is, w/ hyper-v as a VM''

    them:
    ''Unfortunately, I donít think your load of 7 will work on our current PCs. After the 6th generation intel processors, they dropped all support for Windows 7. 7th Gen would work with some workarounds, but since 8th and 9th Generation, they do not work at all as far as I know''

    veritas, i'm a big fan of, answer:
    ''In my opinion, I guess that the differences between Intel CPU generations have no problem when you run Windows 7 as Hyper-V VM on Windows 10 because Hyper-V layer can basially absorb the differences of CPU generations. The Hyper-V on old CPU cannot emulate the new CPU but the Hyper-V on new CPU can emulate the old CPU.

    I think that you can recover your Win 7 as a VM on Win 10 using the backup data that was backed up on Windows 7 without using Veritas System Recovery 21.''

    ty,
    ts

    machine im using:
    WIN7-PC
    Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr_escrow.200102-1707)
    Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
    System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD
    System Model: MS-7514
    BIOS: Default System BIOS
    Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.3GHz
    Memory: 7168MB RAM

    machine i'm buyng locally:

    Intel Core i3 9100 3.6GHz 9MB Core
    8GB DDR4 Memory
    250GB Solid State Hard drive
    2TB SATA Storage Drive
    Full ATX case w/400 Watt Power Supply
    2GB GeForce GTX 1050 Video Card
    DVD-RW
    Windows 10 Professional
    Hi there
    the basic point of VM's is that they CAN run legacy software and hardware as well

    You shouldn't have any problem running a W7 Virtual machine on any sort of modern equipment - whether you use HYPER-V, VMWare, VBOX or even on a Linux QEMU/KVM host.

    The VM's virtual BIOS should make the VM essentially independent (within reason) of the physical hardware used.

    Of course HYPERVISOR VM's like HYPER-V (Windows) or QEMU/KVM(Linux) allow hardware to be passed through to the VM making it possible for the VM to be almost as efficient as running the Native OS - it's not necessary though and using the usual "paravirtualised drivers" allows the VM's to be run on almost any hardware.

    E.G here's an XP VM with a mini disc recorder application (anybody remember minidiscs). So don't worry about any problems running W7 Virtual machines !!

    creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine-xp2.jpg

    Once you've got HYPER-V / VBOX / VMWARE etc installed as your Virtualisation software simply mount the W7 install OS in the VM and install just as you would install say Windows on a new PC.

    You might also try and take an image of your W7 system with something like Macrium, create the Virtual machine with just the "Virtual disk space" on your Host machine and then restore the image into the VM with macrium stand alone recovery (this process is known as P2V or Physical to Virtual conversion) -- but unless you know what you are doing this method can be fraught with difficulties -- I'd go for the W7 basic install using the W7 install media for your virtual machine.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 7
    win 7 pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #3

    You might also try and take an image of your W7 system with something like Macrium, create the Virtual machine with quote: ''just the "Virtual disk space" on your Host machine and then restore the image into the VM with macrium stand alone recovery (this process is known as P2V or Physical to Virtual conversion) -- but unless you know what you are doing this method can be fraught with difficulties -- I'd go for the W7 basic install using the W7 install media for your virtual machine.''

    i use ghost 15, and windows images, i just bought acronis true image 2020, to prep for new comp., put it on fathers win 10 home, checked it out. linux is greek to me, i love my 7 pro retail, built on top of 12 year old xp box, dual boot.
    i've been at this comp crash and learn thing for 30 years, this win 10 is next level for me...
    ty again
    ts
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 149
    Windows 10
       #4

    Just get a copy of Windows 7 and have it run in a virtual machine environment. I wouldn't worry about it being native to the OS ie using Windows own VM environment. VirtualBox can and will run Windows 7 without any issues. All you need is a bootable .ISO ie the original installation image, or simply make a bootable .ISO with a tool like PowerISO. If all the necessary files are there you can make a sufficient setup medium for installing any operating system, be it Windows 7 or otherwise. If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.

    Also be very careful using Windows 7. It's no longer supported by Microsoft. It's also got mountains of vulnerabilities that are now no longer being patched.
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 7
    win 7 pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #5

    supermammalego said:
    VirtualBox can and will run Windows 7 without any issues. All you need is a bootable .ISO ie the original installation image, or simply make a bootable .ISO with a tool like PowerISO. If all the necessary files are there you can make a sufficient setup medium for installing any operating system, be it Windows 7 or otherwise. If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.

    Also be very careful using Windows 7. It's no longer supported by Microsoft. It's also got mountains of vulnerabilities that are now no longer being patched.

    can i use virtualbox or wmware and use a vhd image file of MY retail 7 pro 64 as it is now/ as of last backup and upload it to whichever virtual environment, windows H-V, Vbox or vmware? i put faith in NIS/360 to keep windows safe until i can test these solutions, learn the process[s] of creating VM's etc

    ty,
    ts
      My Computer

  6. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 9,259
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #6

    supermammalego said:
    Just get a copy of Windows 7 and have it run in a virtual machine environment. I wouldn't worry about it being native to the OS ie using Windows own VM environment. VirtualBox can and will run Windows 7 without any issues. All you need is a bootable .ISO ie the original installation image, or simply make a bootable .ISO with a tool like PowerISO. If all the necessary files are there you can make a sufficient setup medium for installing any operating system, be it Windows 7 or otherwise. If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.

    Also be very careful using Windows 7. It's no longer supported by Microsoft. It's also got mountains of vulnerabilities that are now no longer being patched.
    Hi there
    a lot of people run Virtual machines to be able to continue to use legacy soft and hardware - no need to worry about "Security issues" if these machines are isolated from the Internet.

    There's lots of expensive still working hardware and software around that isn't supported on modern OS's - possibly because original manufacturer has gone out of business -- software developers have retired / moved on to other projects so its discontinued and some hardware isn't compatible with modern hardware.

    Of course others run VM's as hobbyists (e.g running Windows 3.11 for example !!) -- so for VM's in a lot of cases the whole security issue is vastly overblown --just know what you are doing and what you want the VM to do.

    E.g Windows 3.11

    creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine-win311.png

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer



  7. Posts : 7
    win 7 pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #7

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi there
    a lot of people run Virtual machines to be able to continue to use legacy soft and hardware - no need to worry about "Security issues" if these machines are isolated from the Internet.

    There's lots of expensive still working hardware and software around that isn't supported on modern OS's - possibly because original manufacturer has gone out of business -- software developers have retired / moved on to other projects so its discontinued and some hardware isn't compatible with modern hardware.

    Of course others run VM's as hobbyists (e.g running Windows 3.11 for example !!) -- so for VM's in a lot of cases the whole security issue is vastly overblown --just know what you are doing and what you want the VM to do.

    E.g Windows 3.11

    creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine-win311.png

    Cheers
    jimbo
    hi,
    ''If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.''

    i can useu this 7 machine remotely, have both 7 and 10 at fingertips? w/ no need to have 7 on internet, and or 3.1 [-'?

    ty,
    ts

    - - - Updated - - -

    sneauxwolf said:
    hi,
    ''If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.''

    i can useu this 7 machine remotely, have both 7 and 10 at fingertips? w/ no need to have 7 on internet, and or 3.1 [-'?

    ty,
    ts
    the whole point is not having to reinstall legacy software, and see which 1's i can run on 10 + learn a thing or 2... ''learn and crash'' i got it backwards b4 ''crash and learn''
    ty
    ts
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 149
    Windows 10
       #8

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi there
    a lot of people run Virtual machines to be able to continue to use legacy soft and hardware - no need to worry about "Security issues" if these machines are isolated from the Internet.

    There's lots of expensive still working hardware and software around that isn't supported on modern OS's - possibly because original manufacturer has gone out of business -- software developers have retired / moved on to other projects so its discontinued and some hardware isn't compatible with modern hardware.

    Of course others run VM's as hobbyists (e.g running Windows 3.11 for example !!) -- so for VM's in a lot of cases the whole security issue is vastly overblown --just know what you are doing and what you want the VM to do.

    E.g Windows 3.11

    creating a VM win7, on win 10 pro i3 gen 9 machine-win311.png

    Cheers
    jimbo
    I was discussing security in the context of using Windows 7 regardless of in a VM environment or not. I'm well aware people continue to run old operating systems for nostalgia sake and this I can understand as I've got and/or had virtual machines that go back to before Windows 1.0 and 2.0. The concern is whether these are really run from virtual machine environments or they are actually installed on a host computer without virtualization. Flirting with the notion of running these operating systems in a VM and actually having them installed for real are two different things. Obviously that would be some task for really old operating systems like the ones I mentioned just now but for more recent ones ie Windows XP, 7 etc people still actively use those operating systems. The NHS in the UK for example had security audits done revealing much of their infrastructure was still running Windows XP in a production environment! This sort of thing is very common across the board but just bringing up a highly recognised and trusted healthcare system run by a world power who still until recently used these operating systems despite reaching EOL really speaks volumes about the reality of this situation.

    And so I'd be hard pressed to believe that many people out there are simply using these operating systems for nostalgia purposes when the truth is actually completely different. Lots of people will make the stupid decision of choosing to run these operating systems for real. With internet disabled, with very little hardware exposed to the virtual machine etc you're good to go but you'll find people still running old operating systems and so it's good to educate people on the realities surrounding the risks they are taking by running them. It's great going back in time and reliving old memories as you boot into Windows 95 or something similiar. It's not so great when people try and merge these outdated and very very vulnerable obsolete operating systems with the new world we live in. A new world that these operating systems have no chance of surviving in.
    sneauxwolf said:
    hi,
    ''If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.''

    i can useu this 7 machine remotely, have both 7 and 10 at fingertips? w/ no need to have 7 on internet, and or 3.1 [-'?

    ty,
    ts

    - - - Updated - - -



    the whole point is not having to reinstall legacy software, and see which 1's i can run on 10 + learn a thing or 2... ''learn and crash'' i got it backwards b4 ''crash and learn''
    ty
    ts
    I'm a little bit confused. You are replying to the wrong people but also replying to yourself as well. Are you seeking advice or are you seeking for someone to reinforce the decisions you wish to make regardless of the advice you receive?

    If you want to run Windows 7 you will need a bootable .iso. This will be used to run the installation with in the virtual environment. Ensure you have sufficient hard drive space to both run the VM hosted operating system and also run the primary operating system. For more flexibility I'd set the virtual disk to dynamically allocated so that the host system can allocate drive space as and when it needs it. For Windows 7 I can't see you needing more than 20GB at the absolute most, depending of course on what else will be on the system after installation. Make sure you don't go online with the VM as you have absolutely no support and so you're not protected. Windows 7 was one of the most vulnerable operating systems Microsoft released despite it also being among the most popular OS they released to date. I myself really liked Windows 7, especially after the failings Microsoft had with Windows Vista. It was nice to see them do things a little better and really try to not rush to bring an OS to market. Windows 7 was in many ways the framework by which Microsoft could head off into the future but also put the past behind them. I'd argue moreover Windows 10 takes directly from Windows 7 more than it does 8 and beyond. That being said it was super vulnerable and now it's quite literally on it's own with no-one looking over it anymore. You have to bare this in mind. Although Windows 7 hasn't been out of service for that long you will still be missing critical security updates that reguarly are available with Windows 10. These security updates do make a difference. And so don't try and run this in a production environment ie for real and as a primary choice for your operating system.

    If you're stuck for finding Windows 7 installation media I'd take a look online and see what you can find. You'll likely find bargain prices these days for this OS. I've just had a quick look and it seems like you can buy a disk and key for under $30 on eBay. This way not only do you get Windows 7 but you also get to keep a physical copy if you really like keeping a piece of history for yourself. This is of course if you're struggling for an official setup disk/media.

    In terms of using a VNC I meant specifically over your local network. You can have a machine running Windows 7 and then you can access it from anywhere on your LAN using VNC. You could access it from a laptop, a smartphone, a desktop, whatever you wanted. You'll likely get way better performance as well as you're not using lots of system resources on the device that connects to the Windows 7 machine. Just a suggestion.
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 7
    win 7 pro 64
    Thread Starter
       #9

    [QUOTE=supermammalego;1941264]The concern is whether these are really run from virtual machine environments or they are actually installed on a host computer without virtualization. Flirting with the notion of running these operating systems in a VM and actually having them installed for real are two different things.''

    i'm replying to each reply as they come.
    i share your concern regarding outdated OS's, it took me a couple of months to go from xp to 7 aafter it lost support. i felt dirty... i still have xp on this system, separate hdd's dual boot, i don't boot to it tho, and i can't back out of dual boot. theres no entry in msconfig for xp, i never disconnected the xp drive upon installation of MY RETAIL 7 PRO from ebay. I stuck in new hdd, booted it w/ 7 cd/dvd, in the end i had dual boot... i had to use easybcd to add boot entry xp or 7, default 7.
    i want to add my 100gb vhd image to hyper-v if it'll work on gen 9 i3, i do not have the 10 machine yet, or a fresh install of my retail 7 in as a VM, on 10 for testing etc.
    i was reeading about the VCD and like that idea too. i don't want to run 7 w/o virtualiztion, i don't want vulnerabilities either. that said, and what you wrote, i feel your passion. i'm just 1 computer, trying to upgrade.

    i apologize if i'm answering threads wrong, sorry i'm not done with 7 yet.
    yes i'm looking for confirmation , and how to do it securely.
    ty for your reply,
    ts
      My Computer

  10. jimbo45's Avatar
    Posts : 9,259
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #10

    sneauxwolf said:
    hi,
    ''If you want it to be isolated you could run it from a different computer and use a VNC.''

    i can useu this 7 machine remotely, have both 7 and 10 at fingertips? w/ no need to have 7 on internet, and or 3.1 [-'?

    ty,
    ts

    - - - Updated - - -



    the whole point is not having to reinstall legacy software, and see which 1's i can run on 10 + learn a thing or 2... ''learn and crash'' i got it backwards b4 ''crash and learn''
    ty
    ts
    Hi there
    Afraid I'm too old to understand "Textspeak" -- any chance of actual words (especially if people are not native English speakers in the first place) or does your Internet provider charge per keyboard stroke !!!!.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


 

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