Run W7 legacy software on VM under W10 or dual boot?  

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  1. Posts : 7,704
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
       #11

    Sometimes such old software will install in Windows 10 if you run the installer as an administrator from an admin account in compatibility mode for Windows 7. You might also have to run the installed program as an administrator.
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  2. Posts : 1,656
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       #12

    Gadgety said:
    One problem is the software is not available to download for install anymore, only via subscription, so I'm not sure how I could reinstall it.
    If you can't get hold of the original installation media, a dual boot (W7 on disk, W10 on another) seems like the only option.

    However, if I recall correctly, you can convert a W7 installation into a VHD, then install that to a virtual machine running under W10. @Kari is the guru on this, so I'll ask him to drop by here, and advise further.

    Edit : I belive this is the tutorial Kari will point you too, but I see he is replying to lets see what he has to say.
    Hyper-V - Create and Use VHD of Windows 10 with Disk2VHD
    Last edited by Golden; 11 Jan 2020 at 06:50.
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  3. Posts : 14
    Windows7
    Thread Starter
       #13

    Golden said:
    If you can't get hold of the original installation media, a dual boot (W7 on disk, W10 on another) seems like the only option.

    However, if I recall correctly, you can convert a W7 installation into a VHD, then install that to a virtual machine running under W10. @Kari is the guru on this, so I'll ask him to drop by here, and advise further.

    Edit : I belive this is the tutorial Kari will point you too, but I see he is replying to lets see what he has to say.
    Hyper-V - Create and Use VHD of Windows 10 with Disk2VHD
    Thank you, Golden. As for 'original installation media' Autodesk cleverly provided a web installation, and I got a transfer license utility, for when changing motherboards. The Autodesk webforum community manager claims, though, that for the 2014 version "unfortunately this version is not supported on Windows 10." In the end, I may not need the VHD for this particular piece of software, but for other pieces of software I probably will. I just now read through Kari's explanation. The way I understand it, it's like activating a disk image? I e it's a complete system copy, with all software etc, and running it on a virtual machine, correct? In my case it would be a W7 VHD, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    clam1952 said:
    3ds Max 2010 is running quite happily on Win10 here which was a straight upgrade from Win7, never had to do anything, even the prehistoric Gmax runs in 10 as does Autodesks Softimage.
    Thank you! That would be great!

    So in terms of procedure that would mean 1. Make a system image, just in case. 2. Install W10 on my empty harddisk. 3. Launch DSMax from the original installation (sitting on the old hdd). Seems right?

    I also understand you didn't do a 'clean install' but an upgrade?
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  4. Posts : 54
    Windows 10
       #14

    In passing, I mention that using the standard free "upgrade in place" approach of migrating forward from a currently installed Win7 system (including all of its currently established software, Windows customizations, etc.) to a Win10 environment appears to establish a new Win10 environment which is 100% immediately usable, and which successfully runs everything previously installed in Win7, including desktop, settings, customizations, etc., almost entirely unchanged.

    I have now upgraded 11 Win7 machines (some going WAY back) to Win10 using this free MS-blessed approach (i.e. "upgrade THIS PC") rather than doing a Win10 install-from-scratch and attempting to re-install all software from scratch (if that were possible). I've had 100% success, each machine took 3-6 hours (typically done overnight) to complete (depending on the age and speed of the machine and its memory and drives), and the users were back at work using their PC's missing at most 1 day.

    The "key to success" is to also install Start10 (from Stardock) which facilitates the Win7 Start Menu functionality in Win10. You can use either the Win10 Start system, or you can use the old fashioned Win7 Start system that you're accustomed to. For all of these friends and family (non-techies) suddenly faced with having to use a new Win10 system, having it look 99.9% like Win7 made the transition for them completely instant and painless, and essentially invisible.

    Just as an example of a pleasant surprise, I'd installed a very old 2001-vintage version of 32-bit Photoshop 6 on several machines a long long time ago. This used to be possible with Win7 systems because the 16-bit installer SETUP.EXE was still usable. No longer will this installer run on Win10. However every one of these already-installed 32-bit Photoshop 6 instances on these Win7->Win10 upgrades still works perfectly right now, under Win10, since it didn't need to be installed from scratch.

    I was able to complete all 11 of these upgrades (for family and friends) in 3-4 weeks, so that at least for now the January 20 deadline is no longer of concern. And nobody had to go out and buy a new machine, and a complete new machine build-out (or install-from-scratch plus complete build-out) is no longer a mandatory urgency to deal with. For the indefinite future all of these users simply continues to use their systems, and can hardly tell the difference from Win7.

    Start10, FTW.
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  5. Posts : 160
    Win10 pro Winver 20H2 OS Build 19042.867
       #15

    FWIW...and not to add to anyone's confusion...I too have some legacy software that I valued and didn't want to abandon or re-purchase. I did a moderate amount of research and found that upgrading from W10, as opposed to a clean install, would preserve the software in place and allow it to run.

    Most of my legacy stuff is from Corel (M$ and Corel have been engaged in a long standing feud for as long as I can remember) and although I had to implement a kludge here and there (notably on the menu bar in CorelDraw), and at least one minor feature no longer seems to work, CorelDraw X4 and PhotoPaint X4 and WordPerfect X4 and Ventura 10 all seem to be living happily under W10. A number of other legacy programs that I downloaded and some that i installed as a commercial app also are fine.

    From my research and from my experience (six months now and counting) the big hangup with legacy software is that W10 will not allow these apps to install after a clean install of Windows.

    But if they are already there, they coexist without much snarling...

    YMMV....
    Last edited by DWFII; 12 Jan 2020 at 10:04.
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  6. Posts : 856
    Windows 10 Pro 21H2 build 19045.2193 Dual Boot Linux Mint
       #16

    Gadgety said:
    Thank you! That would be great!
    So in terms of procedure that would mean 1. Make a system image, just in case. 2. Install W10 on my empty harddisk. 3. Launch DSMax from the original installation (sitting on the old hdd). Seems right?
    I also understand you didn't do a 'clean install' but an upgrade?
    If installing Win10 on a clean disk, you would need to reinstall 3ds Max so the registry entries and drm stuff gets installed in the right place.

    It should Install OK if you have the installer or dvd as I've since installed it on a Newer PC also Win10. Seems to be working on both when it shouldn't be!

    In many cases not supported doesn't equal won't work. Photoshop CS2 isn't supported but installs in Win10.
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  7. Posts : 11,246
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #17

    clam1952 said:
    If installing Win10 on a clean disk, you would need to reinstall 3ds Max so the registry entries and drm stuff gets installed in the right place.

    It should Install OK if you have the installer or dvd as I've since installed it on a Newer PC also Win10. Seems to be working on both when it shouldn't be!

    In many cases not supported doesn't equal won't work. Photoshop CS2 isn't supported but installs in Win10.
    Hi there

    actually if you IMAGE the old W7 installation via Macrium or whatever --you CAN restore that image as a VM with VBOX / VMware player etc.

    1) Image the system to external HDD / USB drive.
    2) ensure you have ISO of bootable restore media (make that in Macrium under tools) - have iso image
    3) in the VM config have the iso as the boot device
    4) create VM with wizard but say I'll install operating system later
    5) attach usb device where you've got your image file.
    6) boot the VM -- the Macrium stand alone restore should work.
    5) now re-boot the VM from the Virtual disk -- not the macrium iso.
    6) if it fails then re-boot VM from the macrium iso image -->tools --<>fix windows boot problems. I've very rarely needed to do that.
    7) after successful reboot into windows update any drivers etc needed - the display driver will probably initially be quite basic
    8) Once networking is OK then install vmware tools / vbox additions depending on what vm software you are using

    Job done. (Note you might have to re-enter w7 activation key --if so do by phone and just say you've moved W7 to a new computer --shouldn't be any problems there).

    My view is that HDD / SSD's are cheap and VM's run really well these days even on fairly old computers so why go to all the hassle of trying to install years out of date software on a new W10 installation when the stuff works perfectly on an OS you already have --VM's were specifically invented for just these scenarios and unless you absolutely HAVE to have dual booting -- e.g extreme graphics for gaming etc then there really isn't any reason to avoid using VM's. In any case really extreme gaming probably wouldn't have worked on the typical hardware around when W7 was at its most current.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  8. Posts : 1,656
    Windows 10 Pro x64
       #18

    Gadgety said:
    The way I understand it, it's like activating a disk image? I e it's a complete system copy, with all software etc, and running it on a virtual machine, correct? In my case it would be a W7 VHD, right?
    Yes, thats my understanding. I asked @Kari to comment and provide advice on this, or possible alternate solutions - he is the guru in this area. If you aren't in a mad rush, I'd wait for his reply to see if there is anything else to consider.
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  9. Posts : 17,661
    Windows 10 Pro
       #19

    Gadgety said:
    I just now read through Kari's explanation. The way I understand it, it's like activating a disk image? I e it's a complete system copy, with all software etc, and running it on a virtual machine, correct? In my case it would be a W7 VHD, right?
    Golden said:
    Yes, thats my understanding. I asked @Kari to comment and provide advice on this, or possible alternate solutions - he is the guru in this area. If you aren't in a mad rush, I'd wait for his reply to see if there is anything else to consider.
    The process is relatively easy, the Disk2VHD tutorial will give detailed step by step instructions in creating a VHD (Virtual Hard Disk) file from your current Windows 7 installation, and using the VHD on a Hyper-V virtual machine.

    A note from the tutorial:

    information   Information
    Disk2VHD is a practical free tool by Sysinternals, since 2006 a subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation. Sysinternals is well known of their wide range of free tools to manage, troubleshoot and diagnose Windows systems and applications. As the name already tells Disk2VHD is a tool to create a Virtual Hard Disk (VHD) file of an existing Windows system. This VHD file can then be used to create a virtual machine in Windows Virtual PC (Windows 7) and Hyper-V (Windows 8 and later).

    In this tutorial we will download and install Disk2VHD on an existing Windows 10 computer, use it to create a VHD of the current Windows 10 installation on that computer and use the resulting VHD to create a virtual machine on Windows 10 Hyper-V. The virtual machine will be an exact copy of the original Windows installation apart of some hardware and drivers, Hyper-V replacing some hardware with its own virtual devices.

    The virtual machine will be fully functional and contain all software, user profiles and settings which were installed and present on the real physical computer and Windows when the VHD creation process was started.

    Disk2VHD works exactly the same way in all Windows versions starting from XP, so even the tutorial's example shows how to capture Windows 10 to VHD, the process is the same in Windows 7.

    Kari
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  10. Posts : 14
    Windows7
    Thread Starter
       #20

    Kari said:
    Disk2VHD works exactly the same way in all Windows versions starting from XP, so even the tutorial's example shows how to capture Windows 10 to VHD, the process is the same in Windows 7.
    Kari
    Thank you, Kari. So, I need to create the VHD of my W7 system before installing W10, assuming I install W10 on the same harddisk where W7 now sits, correct? Furthermore I need to create a partition on a separate hdd and save the VHD copy there? Or perhaps a partition is not necessary, only saving the VHD copy to a separate location disk?

    Would your description of creating the VHD copy equal jimbo45's description of creating an image of the system (although in that instruction it's saved to an external disk) in terms of functionality?

    Kind regards

    - - - Updated - - -

    clam1952 said:
    If installing Win10 on a clean disk, you would need to reinstall 3ds Max so the registry entries and drm stuff gets installed in the right place.

    It should Install OK if you have the installer or dvd as I've since installed it on a Newer PC also Win10. Seems to be working on both when it shouldn't be!

    In many cases not supported doesn't equal won't work. Photoshop CS2 isn't supported but installs in Win10.
    Thank you. As for the installer, I've got folder called installer which contains an PropDep_userInd.mc3 file, Is that it? Eve if it were, afaik the file will not be downloaded from Autodesk any longer.

    So it seems that the best alternative would be to not do a clean install, but to do an in-place installation, as DWFII suggested.
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