Unable add new MS or local accounts, something is broken

There is so much incorrect information in your posts about fundamental aspects of user accounts that I felt you ought to be told.
- I have written some explanations and have underlined those that I need your responses to in order to complete the explanations.
- I am sorry to pile up so much in one post. Once the situation is clarified the final explanations might be quite short & simple, honest.

ineuw said:

I registered with the same MS account for both machines

1 So far, so good.
- If you set up MSAccounts during Windows 10 installation, you will have the same UserName on each computer. I think you did this but am not certain.
- If, during installation, you set up local accounts and only later converted them to MSAccounts then some aspects of the original username will be retained such as the name of the folder in C:\Users. This, I think, might be what you later refer to as a 'local account name' but I am not certain. Nevertheless, the username will now be the same - as shown when you go to the Start menu & look at the user icon to see its username.
- On both machines, you will have the same password because any MSAccount user account only has a single password.
- You might set up different Pins for them but not different passwords.
- You can check this for yourself by running the command net user in any command / powershell window on each computer and then comparing the usernames reported. If the responses are not exactly the same then you can post them for explanations to be given.
- You can also go a step further. If, for example, one username is Fred then enter the command net user Fred to see details about that account. If it is an MSAccount then the Full name entry will show the full username that you used to name your MSAccount when it was first created - these Full name entries will be the same if the MSAccount that they are linked to is the same one. Please confirm that you have checked this on each computer.

ineuw said:

... used the same username, same local account name and password, on both local accounts

2 This is where the confusing statements begin
- If you have linked to the same MSAccount for each machine then each computer will show the same username for the user account - go to the Start menu & look at the user icon to see its username.
- There is no such thing as a 'local account name'. What do you mean by this term? I think you might mean the folder name in C:\Users or the shortened username returned by the command net user.

ineuw said:

MS insisted that I change the local account password on the Desktop???

ineuw said:

I managed to revert to my old local password

3 There is no such thing as a 'local password'. A user account has one password and one password only.
- But you have said that you only have that MSAccount on each computer. MS do not require, and will not accept, different passwords on different computers for the same MSAccount.
- Please explain what you mean by 'local password'.
- Please explain what MS said to you and how they passed this instruction to you.

ineuw said:

P.S: The local and MS passwords are NOT the same.

4 Then they are different user accounts.
- Either one of them is a local user account not an MSAccount-linked user account or they are linked to different MSAccounts.
- Settings, Accounts shows whether the logged-in user account is a local account or an MSAccount and it also confirms the username.
- Check this for every user account on each computer

Denis

@ Try3, it's a pity that you didn't post this before my rambling.
I am grateful for the help because MS support articles are incoherently organized, confusing, with information is thrown at the reader all at once. Also apologize for not using the correct terminology in my post.
As for the details of how I messed up with the laptop are not relevant at this point.
On the desktop, I used a PIN with a simple 4 digit code. It was this PIN that MS "forced" me to change. Their message was displayed below PIN box at login but they gave no reason. I thought that because it was the Pro version and the laptop is the Home version.
There is only one Microsoft account, and the username and folder are the same on both installations. "C:\Users\ineuw".

Code:

Desktop User accounts for \\W10P1909DT

C:\Windows\system32>net user ineuw

User name                    ineuw
Full Name
Comment
User's comment
Country/region code          000 (System Default)
Account active               Yes
Account expires              Never
Password last set            ‎2020-‎05-‎13 9:28:49 PM
Password expires             Never
Password changeable          ‎2020-‎05-‎13 9:28:49 PM
Password required            Yes
User may change password     Yes
Workstations allowed         All
Logon script
User profile
Home directory
Last logon                   ‎2020-‎05-‎14 6:30:19 PM
Logon hours allowed          All
Local Group Memberships      *Administrators       *Users
Global Group memberships     *None
The command completed successfully.

Laptop User accounts for \\W10H1909LT

User name                    ineuw
Full Name
Comment
User's comment
Country/region code          000 (System Default)
Account active               Yes
Account expires              Never
Password last set            ‎2020-‎05-‎13 9:54:40 PM
Password expires             Never
Password changeable          ‎2020-‎05-‎13 9:54:40 PM
Password required            Yes
User may change password     Yes
Workstations allowed         All
Logon script
User profile
Home directory
Last logon                   ‎2020-‎05-‎14 6:29:45 PM
Logon hours allowed          All
Local Group Memberships      *Administrators       *Users
Global Group memberships     *None
The command completed successfully.

1 OK, so there does not seem to be anything amiss with your existing user account usernames-passwords after all.
- I assume you blocked out the Full name entries in your posted net user results for privacy.
- I notice that both records show that you have just changed the account password. I think that is a misleading indicator Windows records to confuse us all - I think it updates those entries when MSAccounts are logged into / out of.
- It is possible to set things up so that replacement PINs are demanded after a time but I would have thought you would have remembered setting that up - see Option 2 of Enable or Disable PIN Expiration - TenForumsTutorials for the Registry Key you can check.
- Has somebody else done some setting up on these computers for you?
- Is Windows activated on both computers [Settings, Update, Activation]?

2 Back to the main problem - the inability to create new user accounts.

I do not have any notes about having seen this fault before.
- The closest I can find are some notes about a fault which prevents new user accounts operating correctly but does not affect their creation. The similarity is why I ask about the 'Default' 'account' in 2.3 below {it's not really a default and it's not really an account; it's just how people often refer to it}.

2.1 In Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials there are several methods for creating a local user account - Options 1, 3, 6. Do none of these methods work? For Option 6 in particular, what happened when you tried?

2.2 I suggested in post #3 trying to create local user accounts in Safe mode to check that it is Windows at fault rather than an application. And then going on to run SFC-DISM and then a Repair install. Did you try these?

2.3 It seems so strange that two computers have the same fault.
- - Even if you had repeatedly forced the computer off [say, after a lockup] and that had corrupted your user profiles I would not expect the fault symptoms to be the same.
- - Have you ever done the same user-account-related procedure on both that might have gone wrong?
- - Or anything affecting, say, the 'Default' 'account'?
- - On the subject of the 'Default' 'account', does pasting -C:\Users\Default -in the File explorer address bar show you a set of subfolders that looks similar to a set of normal user's subfolders? {Don't do anything in there. Just look then get out.}

2.4 It does occur to me that it might be useful to know if the normally hidden Built-In Admin account can create a new user that you can then make into an Admin user and if, in turn that new account can create additional new accounts.
- - I always disconnect from the internet before enabling this Built-In Admin account and I disable it again afterwards before I connect to the internet again.
2.4.1 Enable or Disable Built-in Elevated Administrator Account - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.2 Log in to this account and use it to create an additional password-protected local user account Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials [Option 6]
2.4.3 Then make the additional account an Admin one Change Account Type - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.4 Then log into the additional account and use it to make another user account & turn that into an Admin one.
2.4.5 Then, whatever the results, log into your normal account and disable the Built-In Admin account so you can come back and let me know the results

Denis

I assume you blocked out the Full name entries in your posted net user results for privacy.

A: They were empty and I was also surprised. My full name is registered with Microsoft when I purchased the W10 Pro software. (I built the desktop from selected parts). The laptop is registered through Acer and MS is also aware of it.

I notice that both records show that you have just changed the account password. I think that is a misleading indicator Windows records to confuse us all - I think it updates those entries when MSAccounts are logged into / out of

A: Yes, you are correct. I only changed the desktop password.

It is possible to set things up so that replacement PINs are demanded after a time but I would have thought you would have remembered setting that up - see Option 2 of Enable or Disable PIN Expiration - TenForumsTutorials for the Registry Key you can check.

A: I disabled PIN expiration in group policy.

Has somebody else done some setting up on these computers for you?

A: No. These are home computers and I do all the assembly of the hardware and software installation. These are not business machines. No one has access to these and I am the only user. Everyone here have their own. The kids have their own iPads. They have better equipment than I. Their social life is far more important to them than my computers and hobbies. I am sure of that.

Is Windows activated on both computers [Settings, Update, Activation]?

A: Yes.

Back to the main problem - the inability to create new user accounts.

A: I will try again by following your instructions below later. I believe that everything is well.

Have you ever done the same user-account-related procedure on both that might have gone wrong?

A: Yes. On the day of my initial post using the Desktop, Microsoft popped up with a message that there are problems with my online account and they repaired something. I must have done something that woke them up, but I have no clue what it was.

2.1 In Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials there are several methods for creating a local user account - Options 1, 3, 6. Do none of these methods work? For Option 6 in particular, what happened when you tried?
2.2 I suggested in post #3 trying to create local user accounts in Safe mode to check that it is Windows at fault rather than an application. And then going on to run SFC-DISM and then a Repair install. Did you try these?

A: SFC / DISM was reported that all is well on the desktop, but the laptop needed repair, which is normal. I scan the system regularly. SFC and CHKDSK.

Even if you had repeatedly forced the computer off [say, after a lockup] and that had corrupted your user profiles I would not expect the fault symptoms to be the same.

A: There was no forced shutdown or anything abnormal.

On the subject of the 'Default' 'account', does pasting -C:\Users\Default -in the File explorer address bar show you a set of subfolders that looks similar to a set of normal user's subfolders? {Don't do anything in there. Just look then get out.}

A: I don't go near the Default account and just checked. All system provided default user folders are all there and empty.

2.4 It does occur to me that it might be useful to know if the normally hidden Built-In Admin account can create a new user that you can then make into an Admin user and if, in turn that new account can create additional new accounts.

A: After a series of self created fiascos, I approach account creation in a careful and organized fashion. I have been known to forget new passwords.

I always disconnect from the internet before enabling this Built-In Admin account and I disable it again afterwards before I connect to the internet again.

A: An excellent idea.

2.4.1 Enable or Disable Built-in Elevated Administrator Account - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.2 Log in to this account and use it to create an additional password-protected local user account Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials [Option 6]
2.4.3 Then make the additional account an Admin one Change Account Type - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.4 Then log into the additional account and use it to make another user account & turn that into an Admin one.
2.4.5 Then, whatever the results, log into your normal account and disable the Built-In Admin account so you can come back nd let me know the results

A: I will do this in a couple of days. Please bear with me.

1 When you go online to https://account.microsoft.com/?refd=outlook.live.com does it show your name correctly?

2 Testing

2.1 In Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials there are several methods for creating a local user account - Options 1, 3, 6. Do none of these methods work? For Option 6 in particular, what happened when you tried?
2.2 I suggested in post #3 trying to create local user accounts in Safe mode to check that it is Windows at fault rather than an application.

3 Passwords

I have been known to forget new passwords.

I write mine down somewhere secure yet readily available.
- Writing down passwords is as effective as & is a lot cheaper than making 'Password reset disks' [which are only for local accounts anyway].
- I always write user account passwords down on a piece of paper that I keep inside one of those dog nametag cylinder thingies attached to my main keyring

Here's a [UK] link for ID tags https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pet-Barrel-.../dp/B00DEB1JVQ There are lots of available choices but I bought ones that, like these, have a slot in the bottom for me to swing off so I can be confident they won't come apart accidentally while I'm out & about.

Denis

The name shows up correctly on my online account.

ineuw said:

The name shows up correctly on my online account.

So the absence of the FullName entry from the net user results is unexplained. Since I think your ultimate aim is to create new local accounts, perhaps we don't need to solve that aspect at all but it does reduce my confidence in the integrity of the existing MSAccounts on your computers. I'll ask a couple of others if they have seen similar net user results.

I have no reason to think that obtaining the same results by a different method would yield different results. I'd be wasting your time if I suggested these steps -

You can, in any command or powershell window, run the command

Code:

WMIC.exe useraccount list full

so you can tie up a UserName with an SID.

If you look in the Registry Key

Code:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\ProfileList

you'll see that it has, amongst other things, a SubKey for each existing user that is named with its SID and that in each SubKey you'll see a Name item

Code:

ProfileImagePath

that shows its user folder path. So you can link a username with an SID and with a user folder path.

So I won't.

I'm not sure whether this issue is of any significance or not so I've separated it out from the post referring to the tests that you are doing.

Denis

I'm looking forward to seeing your further results. I do appreciate that these will take time.

2.1 In Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials there are several methods for creating a local user account - Options 1, 3, 6. Do none of these methods work? For Option 6 in particular, what happened when you tried?

2.2 I suggested in post #3 trying to create local user accounts in Safe mode to check that it is Windows at fault rather than an application.

2.4 It does occur to me that it might be useful to know if the normally hidden Built-In Admin account can create a new user that you can then make into an Admin user and if, in turn that new account can create additional new accounts.
- - I always disconnect from the internet before enabling this Built-In Admin account and I disable it again afterwards before I connect to the internet again.
2.4.1 Enable or Disable Built-in Elevated Administrator Account - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.2 Log in to this account and use it to create an additional password-protected local user account Add Local Account or Microsoft Account - TenForumsTutorials [Option 6]
2.4.3 Then make the additional account an Admin one Change Account Type - TenForumsTutorials
2.4.4 Then log into the additional account and use it to make another user account & turn that into an Admin one.
2.4.5 Then, whatever the results, log into your normal account and disable the Built-In Admin account so you can come back and let me know the results

Talk to you again soon,
Best of luck,
Denis

@Try3. Thanks again, and there are five accounts. They are all AccountType=512. My identifications are the copied Description lines except my account, the SID of which ends with four digits, while the rest end with three digits.

PS C:\Users\ineuw> WMIC.exe useraccount list full

- Administrator DISABLED : Built-in account for administering the computer/domain
- User DISABLED: A user account managed by the system
- Guest DISABLED: Built-in account for guest access to the computer/domain
* Is ENABLED: Fullname is empty. I found confirmation of this being my account in the registry. Macrium listed my SID, which is how I installed it.
- Windows Defender account DISABLED: A user account managed and used by the system for Windows Defender Application Guard scenarios.

This is my account

Code:

AccountType=512
Description=
Disabled=FALSE
Domain=W10P1909DT
FullName=
InstallDate=
LocalAccount=TRUE
Lockout=FALSE
Name=ineuw
PasswordChangeable=TRUE
PasswordExpires=FALSE
PasswordRequired=TRUE
SID=S-1-5-21-3474127134-127041097-2004170163-1001
SIDType=1
Status=OK

OK.

I'll await the other results with baited breatth.

Denis