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  1.    13 Aug 2016 #180
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    UK
    Posts : 1,007
    W10 pro x86 and W10 x86

    Quote Originally Posted by subzero View Post
    Thanks for the responses guys. Just to clarify, I have a new laptop without any pics, mp3 etc.
    There is confusion here.

    Your shot shows around 35Gb on the C drive as being in use by the operating system. As this is a new PC that makes sense because it will be pre-loaded with lots of (mostly) unwanted 'junk' and adware'. A clean Windows 10 installation is tiny in comparison.

    So...

    You would need a larger than 35Gb drive to back that up (a system image).

    Do you understand the difference between a system image and a recovery drive ?

    The image is an exact copy of the drive at the instant you click 'create image'. That image can then be restored at any future time restoring the PC to how it was at that instant in time,

    A recovery drive allows limited repair options to be performed (this all fits on a small USB drive of 4Gb). There is also the option of adding 'Windows system files' to that recovery drive that would allow a Windows to copy the operating system files if needed for a reset or repair installation. That option needs a much larger drive...

    What I would advise is for you to get a small plug in USB drive (not the tiny Flash drives) of perhaps 300 to 500Gb (they are not that expensive) and to make a complete system image. You also need a recovery drive (or burn a recovery CD) to allow you access that image in the event you can not boot the PC.

    You may at some future point want to consider clean installing W10 but having a system image of it all as it stands now will allow you to recover back.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    13 Aug 2016 #181
    Join Date : Jun 2016
    Posts : 1,462
    Win10 1607

    I would suggest installing MiniTool Partition Wizard Free 9.1 (along with Macrium Reflect) so you can see what partitions you really have as there maybe hidden partitions from HP too.

    MiniTool Partition Wizard | Best partition magic alternative for Windows PC and Server

    Does the laptop have separate a SSD and HDD? or is it a SSHD Drive (HDD with built in SSD) ?

    My guess is the 12GB Partition is the HP Factory Image the Laptop uses to restore itself to Factory Condition if needed. With a 32GB Key you could partition the Key with a 12GB 2nd partition and copy the HP Recover Partition to the Key for Backup and still have room for the Recovery Key Win10 makes. Do that after you make the Recovery Key as I think it Formats the Drive , not just the Partition it is making for itself.

    Like Mooley I would suggest a 500GB-1TB external Drive , several people I know use the WD Passport Drives for this, they are well priced and seem to last well.


    .
    Last edited by Kbird; 13 Aug 2016 at 11:22.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    14 Aug 2016 #182
    Join Date : Aug 2016
    Posts : 11
    windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooly View Post
    There is confusion here.

    Your shot shows around 35Gb on the C drive as being in use by the operating system. As this is a new PC that makes sense because it will be pre-loaded with lots of (mostly) unwanted 'junk' and adware'. A clean Windows 10 installation is tiny in comparison.

    So...

    You would need a larger than 35Gb drive to back that up (a system image).

    Do you understand the difference between a system image and a recovery drive ?

    The image is an exact copy of the drive at the instant you click 'create image'. That image can then be restored at any future time restoring the PC to how it was at that instant in time,

    A recovery drive allows limited repair options to be performed (this all fits on a small USB drive of 4Gb). There is also the option of adding 'Windows system files' to that recovery drive that would allow a Windows to copy the operating system files if needed for a reset or repair installation. That option needs a much larger drive...

    What I would advise is for you to get a small plug in USB drive (not the tiny Flash drives) of perhaps 300 to 500Gb (they are not that expensive) and to make a complete system image. You also need a recovery drive (or burn a recovery CD) to allow you access that image in the event you can not boot the PC.

    You may at some future point want to consider clean installing W10 but having a system image of it all as it stands now will allow you to recover back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kbird View Post
    I would suggest installing MiniTool Partition Wizard Free 9.1 (along with Macrium Reflect) so you can see what partitions you really have as there maybe hidden partitions from HP too.

    MiniTool Partition Wizard | Best partition magic alternative for Windows PC and Server

    Does the laptop have separate a SSD and HDD? or is it a SSHD Drive (HDD with built in SSD) ?

    My guess is the 12GB Partition is the HP Factory Image the Laptop uses to restore itself to Factory Condition if needed. With a 32GB Key you could partition the Key with a 12GB 2nd partition and copy the HP Recover Partition to the Key for Backup and still have room for the Recovery Key Win10 makes. Do that after you make the Recovery Key as I think it Formats the Drive , not just the Partition it is making for itself.

    Like Mooley I would suggest a 500GB-1TB external Drive , several people I know use the WD Passport Drives for this, they are well priced and seem to last well.


    .
    Thank you Gents for all the help.

    It's starting to make sense now.
    @Mooly my Laptop does not have a optical drive, so I can just create it(recovery drive) on the WD passport if needed, but do I need to do this first as deletes everthing on the drive . Then once I have created the recovey drive I can then create a system image on the same Wd passport.

    Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions

    I'll look into purchasing a WD passport, just hope I don't go through this all again with it.

    Just to clarify, @Kbird I have a SSD and HDD separate drives.

    Does any one still know why the Laptop did not recognise the Sandisk during the recovery disk creation?

    I just don't want to buy another Usb or the WD passport for it to not be recognised again.

    Thanks
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    14 Aug 2016 #183
    Join Date : Jun 2016
    Posts : 1,462
    Win10 1607

    Quote Originally Posted by subzero View Post
    Thank you Gents for all the help.

    It's starting to make sense now.
    @Mooly my Laptop does not have a optical drive, so I can just create it(recovery drive) on the WD passport if needed, but do I need to do this first as deletes everthing on the drive . Then once I have created the recovey drive I can then create a system image on the same Wd passport.

    Sorry if I'm asking dumb questions

    I'll look into purchasing a WD passport, just hope I don't go through this all again with it.

    Just to clarify, @Kbird I have a SSD and HDD separate drives.

    Does any one still know why the Laptop did not recognise the Sandisk during the recovery disk creation?

    I just don't want to buy another Usb or the WD passport for it to not be recognised again.

    Thanks
    The Recovery Drive should be created on the USB Key as the Recovery Drive APP deletes everything from the Drive when it makes the Recovery Drive. You can however add more files to the drive afterwards if desired , eg Drivers, Programs CDs etc. but each time you update the recovery Drive it will wipe the drive.

    You will make System Images on the WD Passport. The Passport comes with its own backup software too , which will backup Docs , pics Music etc too , but I still make Images so Windows will be back to exactly that moment in time the Image was made with my Programs etc already installed and ready to go. It doesn't hurt to have an extra backup of your Files like the WD Software will make too, a 1TB drive will allow you to do Both many times with room to spare.

    I think you were just unlucky with that particular USB Key , same as I was with the Verbatim Go USB3 keys I got and had to return too.

    KB
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    15 Aug 2016 #184
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    UK
    Posts : 1,007
    W10 pro x86 and W10 x86

    Quote Originally Posted by subzero View Post
    Thank you Gents for all the help.

    It's starting to make sense now.
    @Mooly my Laptop does not have a optical drive, so I can just create it(recovery drive) on the WD passport if needed, but do I need to do this first as deletes everthing on the drive . Then once I have created the recovey drive I can then create a system image on the same Wd passport.
    You're very welcome

    As Kbird suggests, the USB flash drive (an ordinary 4Gb type) is for the recovery drive. You create it and put it away safely and forget it. The Passport drive will allow you to store whole disc images and ordinarily, you would create and restore these all from within Windows.

    The recovery drive on the USB stick is the last resort option and would allow a non Windows bootable PC to access and restore the complete image backups you have made as well as allow more basic repair tasks.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    15 Aug 2016 #185
    Join Date : Dec 2015
    Posts : 5,454
    Windows10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooly View Post
    You're very welcome

    As Kbird suggests, the USB flash drive (an ordinary 4Gb type) is for the recovery drive. You create it and put it away safely and forget it. The Passport drive will allow you to store whole disc images and ordinarily, you would create and restore these all from within Windows.

    The recovery drive on the USB stick is the last resort option and would allow a non Windows bootable PC to access and restore the complete image backups you have made as well as allow more basic repair tasks.
    You are using confusing terminology here.

    A recovery drive does not do what you are saying. All a recovery drive does is reinstate Operating System back to barebones condition ie OS only (no programs).

    A usb installation drive (ie via MCT) will allow you to upgrade, clean install, repair upgrade, boot to safetmode etc, and allow access to command prompt to allow some basic repair functions.

    A usb recovery disk created from control panel will not fit on 4GB - you need at least 16GB, as the recovery files are decompressed.

    A usb installation stick (ie from media creation tool) might fit on a 4GB stick, if you only select one bit type. The 32/64bit version requires an 8 GB stick.

    Also, puttng away the recovery stick or usb installation stick and forgetting it is only partly true. You have to recreate the USB stick after each build upgrade.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    15 Aug 2016 #186
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    UK
    Posts : 1,007
    W10 pro x86 and W10 x86

    Fair comment This is what I was referring to, the 'create a system repair disc (or USB drive)' option which is available in 'control panel' under 'backup and restore W7' which allows the PC to boot from the USB stick and which offers various recovery options. When you create the disc I recall that you have the option to include the OS files if desired (I don't do that as I would only ever want to restore back to a good disk image rather patch a broken one).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What I would advise subzero to do is to initially make a full disk image onto something like the WD passport drives mentioned, and then look at the restore options and so on all from within Windows. Get used to making images and having the confidence to restore them.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    15 Aug 2016 #187
    Join Date : Jun 2016
    Posts : 1,462
    Win10 1607

    Quote Originally Posted by cereberus View Post
    You are using confusing terminology here.

    A recovery drive does not do what you are saying. All a recovery drive does is reinstate Operating System back to barebones condition ie OS only (no programs).

    A usb installation drive (ie via MCT) will allow you to upgrade, clean install, repair upgrade, boot to safetmode etc, and allow access to command prompt to allow some basic repair functions.

    A usb recovery disk created from control panel will not fit on 4GB - you need at least 16GB, as the recovery files are decompressed.

    A usb installation stick (ie from media creation tool) might fit on a 4GB stick, if you only select one bit type. The 32/64bit version requires an 8 GB stick.

    Also, puttng away the recovery stick or usb installation stick and forgetting it is only partly true. You have to recreate the USB stick after each build upgrade.
    things have changed a bit Cereberus , at least for me , as I hadn't updated my Recovery Drives since the AU/1607 Update, I decided to refresh them cos of this thread, on both this Computer and my Surface3 the Utility said it needed 8GB at least , on this Desktop it created 4.21GB of Data on the USB key and on the Surface 3 about the same , so I am not sure why it used to ask for a 16GB USB Key , unless it plans to add the Manufacturers OS Reinstall Partition to the Disk too on some systems?

    I hadn't noticed that AU had turned System Restore OFF again, on the Surface at least , not sure if that is why I have had to Run the Recovery Disk App 3 times on the Surface this morning after it failed twice so far ? (1st time 4.51GB, 2nd time 2.52GB on the Key, **edit 6.61GB on Key after enabling System Restore again it finished)

    A recovery Disk does not ONLY allow you to go back to a barebones OS , though that is one option available with a Reset >save no files,
    it will also allow you to do a System Image restore , if you have used the Windows Utility to previously make one and have it on the HD or an External HD , like a WD Passport for example. It also allows many of the same options as a MCT Install USB Key >Repair this Computer Option, except for a full reinstall of Windows obviously.

    The New 1607 ISO/MCT 64bit install Disk is now just larger than 4GB at least here for me when made (4.07GB).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Kbird; 15 Aug 2016 at 17:26.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    22 Aug 2016 #188
    Join Date : Aug 2016
    Posts : 11
    windows 10

    @Mooly @Kbird

    Thank you guys and sorry for the late response.

    So here's what I'm going to do:

    1) Purchase another 16GB USB and create recovery drive, that will be used for this purpose

    2) Purchase a WD 1TB external hard drive and create a System image on it

    Just two more questions guys, I hope you don't mind

    Is this the WD passport drive I should purchase
    WD 1TB Black My Passport Ultra Portable External Hard Drive - USB 3.0 - WDBGPU0010BBK-EESN: Amazon.co.uk: Computers Accessories

    And

    Once I have created the system image I can still use the Hard drive to copy other docs, movies, pics etc on it? and If I was in the future to recreate another System Image, it will NOT delete the existing stuff on the drive?

    Thanks in Advance
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    22 Aug 2016 #189
    Join Date : Jun 2016
    Posts : 1,462
    Win10 1607

    Quote Originally Posted by subzero View Post
    @Mooly @Kbird

    Thank you guys and sorry for the late response.

    So here's what I'm going to do:

    1) Purchase another 16GB USB and create recovery drive, that will be used for this purpose

    2) Purchase a WD 1TB external hard drive and create a System image on it

    Just two more questions guys, I hope you don't mind

    Is this the WD passport drive I should purchase
    WD 1TB Black My Passport Ultra Portable External Hard Drive - USB 3.0 - WDBGPU0010BBK-EESN: Amazon.co.uk: Computers Accessories

    And

    Once I have created the system image I can still use the Hard drive to copy other docs, movies, pics etc on it? and If I was in the future to recreate another System Image, it will NOT delete the existing stuff on the drive?

    Thanks in Advance

    sounds like a good plan

    I am not familar with that particular model on the Passport , but my guess is that it is an updated version and it appears to have many good reviews and it's on sale by the looks , it used to come with the neoprene case btw. For the extra 17 quid i'd likely get the 2TB version though as it seems like you never have enough space as time goes by especially if you have more than one Computer to backup/image.

    Yes the Passport drive is fully useable for other uses at all times , even the USB can be used for other things between making recovery images if really needed .

    I have cheap Lexar USB2 Drives for use as Recovery Keys and Boot Keys , got a good deal on a 3 pk and had no problems with any of them , and they have an LED which is nice so you know when they are being accessed . like these ones I found on your link

    Lexar JumpDrive V20 8GB USB-Flash Drive (4 Pack) - LJDV20-8GBABEUW4: Amazon.co.uk: Computers Accessories


    Edit : not sure why the link keeps referring to the 4pk of 8GB keys but click on the 16GB version instead

    KB
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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