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  1.    26 Jul 2016 #20
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 25,665
    64-bit Windows 10 Pro build 17046
    Thread Starter

    Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm not sure that it needs to be included in the tutorial since the tutorial is only to applied after you have already installed the supported build.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    26 Jul 2016 #21
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 10
    Windows 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Brink View Post
    Sorry if I'm being dense, but I'm not sure that it needs to be included in the tutorial since the tutorial is only to applied after you have already installed the supported build.
    Ultimately it is your decision. What I've pointed out is that people cannot get to the supported build, if/when a disruptive device driver is in the same update download with the supported build. That device driver will be installed first, thus preventing the installation of the supported build. If people already got the supported build before whatever a disruptive device driver, the tutorial will work. Users need to logistically think through their own catch-22 scenario. The definition of a "disruptive device driver" is that its update will stop a PC from working (such as blind screen, or crash, or stop the application which deems mission-critical). As explained, this catch-22 scenario also applies to the on-line update for the upcoming Anniversary Update, but people can use the iso media to get around.

    Again, it is your decision and thanks very much for your great post.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    28 Jul 2016 #22
    Join Date : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc

    Here I had already been planning a clean install for the Redstone 1 Anniversary build coming August 2nd especially if it doesn't work out after first arriving as the WU update. First seeing if it will only require the reinstall of the drivers and possibly app for an older tuner card as well as sound card and run as well as some of the latest Insider builds.

    Fortunately for some time I haven't been running into any problems since 2015 as the WU putting the wrong driver set on as it was at first last summer and fall where blocking those for a manual search was required. Since February when a 10 update became available but only by way of the software's own web updater the initial problems have disappeared except the fresh install of the software side for each newer build or update.

    The recommendation for anyone now starting to run into any driver issues would be to at least follow the guide here as far as temporarily disabling the Windows Update functions until seeing a manual search at the needed supported sites for insuring the correct driver sets. That will avoid continual hangups with updates. Once the correct drivers go on the WU would then only go for the regular MS updates. This is how things should go once the correct drivers are on and things are working normally.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    28 Jul 2016 #23
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 164
    Pro x64 Desktop v1607 14393.51, Home x64 Laptop v1607 14393.51

    I'm not sure if the following information serves a purpose in this thread; however, there is a way to selectively stop Windows update from downloading specific drivers. This would be beneficial if you know a certain driver is causing issues and you don't want an "all or nothing" option. See here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930

    Example of how it works:

    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8...dows-10-a.html

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Again, I apologize if this post has no meaning in this thread. Please remove if it is not applicable.

    aardvark
    Last edited by Brink; 28 Jul 2016 at 17:40. Reason: added tutorial link for more info
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    28 Jul 2016 #24
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 10
    Windows 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    . . . as far as temporarily disabling the Windows Update functions until seeing a manual search at the needed supported sites for insuring the correct driver sets. That will avoid continual hangups with updates. Once the correct drivers go on the WU would then only go for the regular MS updates. This is how things should go once the correct drivers are on and things are working normally.
    You brought up an interesting point. Suppose a newer automatic updated version caused problem, and a user removed it and manually reinstalled the correct (older) version. (1) Will WU repeat the automatic update of the offending driver because it is newer? (2) "temporarily disabling" registry KEY is for "all" driver updates. Therefore, if (1) will repeat the process, this new temporarily disabling method will become permanent, thus defeating its intended purpose. This is the scenario of one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. Wonder if there is any discussion on this among the expert Inside Reviewers?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    28 Jul 2016 #25
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 10
    Windows 7

    Hi aardvark, My own testing confirmed that "https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8...dows-10-a.html." only works when a system survives a disruptive driver update. I just questioned whether this new KEY is still an "all or nothing" option. I kept referring to Registry key, because Windows Home does not have the GPEDIT.msc capability for dealing with specific drivers. Great majority of Windows 10 users are in the Home edition category. That's why I spent so much time verifying and testing it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    28 Jul 2016 #26
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Posts : 25,665
    64-bit Windows 10 Pro build 17046
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindUpgrader View Post
    Hi aardvark, My own testing confirmed that "https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8...dows-10-a.html." only works when a system survives a disruptive driver update. I just questioned whether this new KEY is still an "all or nothing" option. I kept referring to Registry key, because Windows Home does not have the GPEDIT.msc capability for dealing with specific drivers. Great majority of Windows 10 users are in the Home edition category. That's why I spent so much time verifying and testing it.
    Windows 10 Home users will be able to use OPTION TWO in the tutorial on the first page here, but only if they have at least build 14328 installed. Luckily this will also work in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update on Aug. 2nd.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  8.    28 Jul 2016 #27
    Join Date : Apr 2014
    Posts : 3,361
    W10 Pro x64/W7 Ultimate x64 dual boot main - W10 Pro Insider Preview/W7 Pro x64 - remote pc

    Generally the trend seen for each newer version over the years coming up from Legacy days was to see 3rd party updates arrive by WU as optional at first with XP while 10 you now simply have the check box when first upgrading or performing a clean install which stops all updates until Windows is up and running. The idea of first researching for correct driver sets at this time being a year after launch is about when OEM manufacturers will finally be putting out drivers for the newest version of Windows.

    The success 7 saw was largely due to not only the close 7/Vista compatibility as the 10/8.1 reflects but also saw MS pressing OEMs to have 7 drivers ready in time for 7! not just the usual "use Vista drivers until...." such time 7 drivers were finally out. With 10 on the other the WU grabs the first drivers it comes across and slaps those on which is often older not the latest drivers when finding the listing in MS data base for OEM support pointing up until earlier this year at 8, 8.1 drivers.

    Actually for the older Creative X-Fi series XtremeAudio card here the 10 WU had downloaded 7 x64 drivers! It did find the correct driver for the long time discontinued tuner card there while the old Vista app was now doa being for the PCI form of the card while the PCIe or PCI Express model being newer saw 8.1 support. That app and driver proved to be for the exact chip on PCIe instead of PCI card long dead. The Creative web updater tool however is what tool the Support 1.2 package and then downloaded the Support 1.5(February release only by web tool however) which is correct for 10. But that isn't available as a separate download.

    That is a good example of the need for improvision and not simply assume you can't get the correct, working updates to go on. As for problems with any just out driver version stepping from a possible 10 update to the next closest 8.1 update after disabling the WU might seem harsh while manually screening updates not simply running everything auto would be the option to re-enabled the WU once the correct driver(s) are on.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    29 Jul 2016 #28
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 164
    Pro x64 Desktop v1607 14393.51, Home x64 Laptop v1607 14393.51

    Quote Originally Posted by BlindUpgrader View Post
    Hi aardvark, My own testing confirmed that "https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8...dows-10-a.html." only works when a system survives a disruptive driver update. I just questioned whether this new KEY is still an "all or nothing" option. I kept referring to Registry key, because Windows Home does not have the GPEDIT.msc capability for dealing with specific drivers. Great majority of Windows 10 users are in the Home edition category. That's why I spent so much time verifying and testing it.
    Thanks for that info!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    03 Aug 2016 #29
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 10
    Windows 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Hawk View Post
    . . . That is a good example of the need for improvision and not simply assume you can't get the correct, working updates to go on. As for problems with any just out driver version stepping from a possible 10 update to the next closest 8.1 update after disabling the WU might seem harsh while manually screening updates not simply running everything auto would be the option to re-enabled the WU once the correct driver(s) are on.
    I think Microsoft should consider this general philosophy for treating auto updates. (but maybe difficult to implement). From Microsoft's perspective, Auto Update function "should be" in line with "Windows-as-a-service" - beyond merely protecting the integrity of a functioning Windows 10. In enterprise environment, IT support can use Group Policy to manage what device drivers gets deployed. But in the consumer environment, the scope and depth of drivers must cover the legacy left behind by Microsoft's own versions of Windows and technology innovation which made Windows useful.

    So, we are really talking about "freezing" a device driver "as-a-service" in Windows 10. To demonstrate this "freezing a device driver", I installed VMware Player and created a WinXP virtual machine to run my very old Canon scanner which has a rare feature for scanning 35 mm slides. I took a lot of slides over the last 40 years all over the world, and some are probably historical. I am sure there are other devices or apps in this category. The VM works flawlessly and intuitively. However, Microsoft Hyper-V needs Windows 10 Professional and dropped WinXP support. What if Auto Update can take on this vision? And what should Microsoft do?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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