Clean Install Windows 10 Directly without having to Upgrade First

Night Hawk · 18 Dec 2015

digobora said:

Win7 Pro to Win10 Pro.

So, does this method work if I don't do a clean install?

The upgrade path is correct. With a valid 7 key at this time you shouldn't even need to upgrade but simply enter the 7 key following the clean install of 10. The guide here mainly was written to address the issues seen with the July 29th 10240 build and those that followed if you signed up that is for the Windows Insider Program since this is how MS was playing it for the free upgrade.

NavyLCDR said:

If you did an in place upgrade and it did not activate, the genuineticket.xml will not activate it either.

The chances of not seeing 10 activate following an upgrade to 10 type install would be from a 7 installation that lacked SP1 being a requirement. That would be an immediate snag in the fabric there. Then there may have been something else needed since the 10 install may not have been detected as valid for some reason and the upgrade was rejected at the server end.

In fact the best recommendations you will hear before seeing any upgrade install is to first see the previous version installed fresh with all updates go on which I did here and hope not to end up with any buggy upgrade!(Seen that too!) The clean install of course will always be the preferred option for the experienced user as well as what you end up with for the end results. And Bhrayan23 this guide will help a good number of people avoid running into the things many of us saw since the summer months!

NavyLCDR · 18 Dec 2015

Night Hawk said:

The chances of not seeing 10 activate following an upgrade to 10 type install would be from a 7 installation that lacked SP1 being a requirement. That would be an immediate snag in the fabric there. Then there may have been something else needed since the 10 install may not have been detected as valid for some reason and the upgrade was rejected at the server end.

That would be incorrect.

1. SP1 for Windows 7 is not required for the upgrade to Windows 10. SP1 is only required for Windows 10 to show up in Windows Update.

2. During any install of Windows 10 ver 1511, build 10586 - whether it be a clean install or an upgrade from Windows 7/8/8.1, if the Windows 10 install program detects on the local computer a preexisting method by which Windows 10 will be activated such as a product key in bios or a properly activated 7/8/8.1 to upgrade from, then Windows 10 will not ask for a product key and will install and activate the proper version (Home or Pro).

The problem comes when the Windows 10 install program cannot find a preexisting condition that will activate Windows 10, so it asks the user to enter a product key or skip entering the product key and asks for which version to install. Then the user needs to make sure that they have a valid means to activate Windows 10 (such as knowing there is a digital entitlement stored on Microsoft activation servers, a product key, or the saved genuineticket.xml file) and that they choose the correct version of Windows 10 to install for which they have the means to activate.

Mooly · 18 Dec 2015

I clean installed W10 pro by using my old Dell W7 pro OEM license key that was affixed to my PC. It activated straight away even though this PC has been running 8.1 for many months (W7 was of course pre installed by Dell).

And further to that (and nothing to with the original install), I had problems with a new version of Acronis that led me to reinstall W10 three times over a couple of days. There was no problem with each install activating (you don't enter the key for subsequent re-installs) despite me wondering if so many activations in so short a time would throw up a problem. It didn't :)

(and I ditched Acronis and got a refund... using W10's own backup utility at the moment)

OldMike65 · 18 Dec 2015

Mooly said:

I clean installed W10 pro by using my old Dell W7 pro OEM license key that was affixed to my PC. It activated straight away even though this PC has been running 8.1 for many months (W7 was of course pre installed by Dell).

And further to that (and nothing to with the original install), I had problems with a new version of Acronis that led me to reinstall W10 three times over a couple of days. There was no problem with each install activating (you don't enter the key for subsequent re-installs) despite me wondering if so many activations in so short a time would throw up a problem. It didn't :)

(and I ditched Acronis and got a refund... using W10's own backup utility at the moment)

Acronis is boat ware now, a lot of folks on here use Macrium Reflect Free version. Its also a lot better than Windows backup, which can sometimes fail. So try out Macrium Reflect think you just may like it more. :)

Mooly · 18 Dec 2015

Thanks Mike. Yes a lot have recommended Macrium... I honestly haven't decided what to do yet on that score. I've been putting WIndows backup through its paces (renaming and moving backups etc) on a parallel install on another PC and so far its been very good. There is one inconsistency though, it doesn't back up and restore Windows Update history. When you restore, history says 'no updates installed' although of course they are. This was a problem with AOMEI too. It doesn't affect the operation of anything though. And Windows backup is quick at around 2 to 3 minutes to do its thing, and around the same time to do a restore. And what is great is that there are no background tasks running like with Acronis. The latest just wouldn't work correctly from the outset. Even shutting down Windows was greeted with an Acronis message that 'tasks were running and your PC would shut down in 2 minutes'. I couldn't add backups already created to the backup list, which it should do automatically anyway... the list goes on. I used Acronis daily over 4 different versions over the last decade and it was the one 'must have' program. Once supreme, it seems to have lost its way.

OldMike65 · 18 Dec 2015

Mooly said:

Thanks Mike. Yes a lot have recommended Macrium... I honestly haven't decided what to do yet on that score. I've been putting WIndows backup through its paces (renaming and moving backups etc) on a parallel install on another PC and so far its been very good. There is one inconsistency though, it doesn't back up and restore Windows Update history. When you restore, history says 'no updates installed' although of course they are. This was a problem with AOMEI too. It doesn't affect the operation of anything though. And Windows backup is quick at around 2 to 3 minutes to do its thing, and around the same time to do a restore. And what is great is that there are no background tasks running like with Acronis. The latest just wouldn't work correctly from the outset. Even shutting down Windows was greeted with an Acronis message that 'tasks were running and your PC would shut down in 2 minutes'. I couldn't add backups already created to the backup list, which it should do automatically anyway... the list goes on. I used Acronis daily over 4 different versions over the last decade and it was the one 'must have' program. Once supreme, it seems to have lost its way.

Acronis was my only backup program I used for at least the last 9 years or more, I have at least 5 registered versions, including the 2016 release. I removed their last version at least 5 months ago. I've been using Macrium Reflect since, I've also made a bootable version for my USB drive. Does not load any special drivers on your windows 10, uses very little space, will backup EVERYTHING on your Windows drive. Including your partitions too!!! So yes it will take longer for a complete image, but it works very well. I only make complete image backups thou. Windows backup is lame, but that's your choice and should be only your choice. But for a free program Macrium is pretty darn good. It did surprise me on just how good it is, actually for a free app.
I also only do my image backups from my bootable Macrium usb stick, even thou I could run it from my C-drive. Anyhow, you should use whatever makes you feel secure, that's the bottom line. :)

Mooly · 19 Dec 2015

OldMike65 said:

Windows backup is lame, but that's your choice and should be only your choice.

:) Its basic, but I don't think I would call it lame. It does seem to work reliably (for me at any rate) and does allow you to backup up not just Windows partitions but also others as well. That is all it does though. You can't name backups when created, although you can rename them afterwards. However you must then rename them back to the default WindowsImageBackup in order for them to be picked up as valid for a restore. No incrementals

but I see there is a 'mount' option. Haven't tried that yet, perhaps that would allow individual files to be copied.

I've recently started using File History as well as full backups. This is a much under used feature imo for anyone that has and creates/changes lots of files.

Apologies for this being slightly OT... perhaps a new thread on backups is called for.

Night Hawk · 20 Dec 2015

NavyLCDR said:

That would be incorrect.

1. SP1 for Windows 7 is not required for the upgrade to Windows 10. SP1 is only required for Windows 10 to show up in Windows Update.

2. During any install of Windows 10 ver 1511, build 10586 - whether it be a clean install or an upgrade from Windows 7/8/8.1, if the Windows 10 install program detects on the local computer a preexisting method by which Windows 10 will be activated such as a product key in bios or a properly activated 7/8/8.1 to upgrade from, then Windows 10 will not ask for a product key and will install and activate the proper version (Home or Pro).

The problem comes when the Windows 10 install program cannot find a preexisting condition that will activate Windows 10, so it asks the user to enter a product key or skip entering the product key and asks for which version to install. Then the user needs to make sure that they have a valid means to activate Windows 10 (such as knowing there is a digital entitlement stored on Microsoft activation servers, a product key, or the saved genuineticket.xml file) and that they choose the correct version of Windows 10 to install for which they have the means to activate.

That's how MS specified things for the upgrade path for 7 which shouldn't be any surprise by this time anyways since 7 has been now for six full years and anyone who ran a check at any time for updates manually if not leaving it set to auro would have seen SP1 go on unless removed or avoided entirely by intent. That would be in a case where something in the service pack either interfered with something or enabled something someone wanted to keep disabled.

With a valid 10 key as well as a few 7 keys here I have run into times when the activation server rejected or blocked the valid key when trying to activate a VM on the exact same machine the key(s) were in use on. And if the present 7 install isn't the original Factory install but with another key the activation server is still picking up on the OEM signature?

With a regular upgrade not activating the xml file would likely become useless as well while MS is trying to get even not so legit Windows installs upgraded to 10 to see those machines made legit. This is one of the reasons MS is pushing out a free upgrade offer to fight the piracy problem seen over the years. The other possible problem besides that would be if the present Windows install got corrupted in some way and simply would need to be replaced by a clean install that could be activated.

Mooly said:

I clean installed W10 pro by using my old Dell W7 pro OEM license key that was affixed to my PC. It activated straight away even though this PC has been running 8.1 for many months (W7 was of course pre installed by Dell).

And further to that (and nothing to with the original install), I had problems with a new version of Acronis that led me to reinstall W10 three times over a couple of days. There was no problem with each install activating (you don't enter the key for subsequent re-installs) despite me wondering if so many activations in so short a time would throw up a problem. It didn't :)

(and I ditched Acronis and got a refund... using W10's own backup utility at the moment)

That's a let down for sure since Acronis T.I. has been working like a champ for the last 5yrs. here without a glitch! And the 2010 Home edition is now on 10 and not seeing one issue either! I had been considering the 2016 but had held off on the trial version once the 2010 went on without a hitch!

As for imaging programs there some others besides Macrium Reflect you might want to look over as well while that one gets a lot of promotion. There are other free programs as well as the paid for softwares which in the long term usually turns out for the best. The paid for typically sees support the freebies tend to lack.

justingoldberg · 30 Dec 2015

Night Hawk said:

You're learning!

Most of us have already all too well known you end up with a working OS when not being stuck with upgrade installs. Buggy! buggy! buggy! is just how they come out for the higher percentages of the time! And it's not only clutter lingering around from the previous version but the upgrade installer itself often forgets to put something on as fully as it should leaving you stuck with the need to see a clean install anyways if not a repair install with a second upgrade over the first.

Hmm, microsoft internally did an in-place upgrade on 70000 computers. Of course, we'll never see the dark side of this: Microsoft IT Showcase

Night Hawk · 30 Dec 2015

justingoldberg said:

Hmm, microsoft internally did an in-place upgrade on 70000 computers. Of course, we'll never see the dark side of this: Microsoft IT Showcase

Well hello! justingoldberg Welcome to the Ten Forums!

The answer to how that was done is relatively easy yet difficult for the Layman to ever accomplish! Namely since MS is huge so is their internal network! The upgrade by way of network can reach far and wide! especially when you have everyone tune in that is all thousands of MS employees tune multiple systems in to receive the 10 update which turns out to be the dreaded upgrade by update automatically checked off problem people initially raised a large fuss over once 10 was out!

MS machines were upgraded on a schedule for presentation of such while private home users weren't too happy at being forced into 10! Subsequently MS ended up having someone issue a public apology claiming it wasn't intentional but a mistake on their part? as far as the 10 upgrade file being checked off when received not allowing choice by the user as the complaint went. You can sure a number of people even here were urked by this at first!