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  1.    18 Mar 2016 #1
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 384
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop

    Sometimes programs hang


    I've had Win10 installed on a rarely used test / backup PC since last fall, but upgraded my regularly used PC just last week, so I don't know if I'm describing a recent problem or one the has been lurking around for months.

    Sometimes I cannot launch new programs. Clicking on a desktop icon for a new program does nothing. Most running programs (like email or a browser) keep working with no apparent problem. The Start menu will display and I can display the Power sub-menu, but clicking on "Shut down" (or any other option, I assume) does nothing. I've tried doing a Ctrl-Alt-DeI in hopes of getting into Task Manager, but Ctrl-Alt-DeI is ignored. I have to power off and back on to get back to normal. At least once I looked at the event records after restart, but there were no error records logged around the time of the hang. (Of course, the logging task might be hung up. How would I know?)

    At least, I thought that described the problem until a couple hours ago. This time there was an additional symptom. One running program - Speccy - hung up. I launched it, and it started collecting data. It got as far as collecting and displaying "Operating System" data but all other categories stayed displaying "Analyzing". I assume both Speccy and program initiation were hung up waiting for some operating system even that wasn't happening any longer, but I have no idea what event that might be.

    I'd like to know what to do to wake the PC up, but I'd be (temporarily) satisfied knowing additional diagnostic tricks to try.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    18 Mar 2016 #2
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    This is custom built, have you gone to ASUS's site to check for updated system drivers since the upgrade to Windows 10, motherboard ASUS Z87-A ? Many reasons for freeze ups and hangs, from software, drivers, outdated or corrupt drivers to possible hardware issues and even too many startups (running processes). See how safe mode reacts. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2...dows-10-a.html

    http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000690.htm
    Last edited by jds63; 18 Mar 2016 at 19:23.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    19 Mar 2016 #3
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 384
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop
    Thread Starter

    I think I'll ignore the Safe Mode tip for now. This problem has happened only 2 or 3 times in the past week. I would not know if a missing occurrence was due to safe mode or just usual behavior.

    As far as updating drivers, I thought that would be easy, but it looks like I'm in over my head. I downloaded 6 files from the ASUS web page:
    Audio_V6_0_1_7525_Win10_WHQL.zip
    Chipset_V10117_WHQL.zip
    Intel_VGA_Win10_V1018154248.zip
    IRST_V14_5_0_1081_WHQL.zip
    LAN_Realtek_V10_1_505_2015_Win10_S5_WOL.zip
    MEI_V11_0_0_1155_20150709_WHQL_1-5M.zip

    I thought the audio one would be a good safe one to start with, but I can't tell what all the stuff in the .zip file is. There is a Drive subfolder, but it contains a whole lot of stuff I don't recognize. I'm not sure what I expected - .DLLs or .EXE files maybe - but the only exe files I see are setup files. Did I download the wrong files?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    19 Mar 2016 #4
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    This confuses me a bit, because of your first post telling me issues with launching programs, launching items within Windows and mostly not responsive. Now it is only few times in past week. Maybe there is corruption in OS and some software.

    Instead of installing new drivers yet, can try system file checker and DISM also try using inplace repair upgrade, but backup all your files first on an external device.

    Right click the Start Menu select Admin Command Prompt copy and paste this press enter let it finish
    sfc /scannow

    Same open command prompt copy and paste this in and press enter, let it finish

    Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth

    reboot after, may have to try these both a few times.

    As said can give you link to do a inplace repair upgrade which should only affect settings made to Windows.Try steps above first.

    Few models of this motherboard i see on ASUS Site.
    which one is it ? http://www.asus.com/us/search/result...IsSupport=True

    in place repair upgrade option
    Repair Install Windows 10 with an In-place Upgrade
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    19 Mar 2016 #5
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 384
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop
    Thread Starter

    Ok. I didn't explain very well. The problem - that I have seen only 3 or so times on the PC I upgraded last week - is the inability to launch new programs, the inability to do a clean shutdown, and (only once so far) freeze during execution of a program (Speccy) that purposely touches a lot of things in the operating system that most programs would use only indirectly and only occasionally as they do their work. Since my original post I've seen reports of programs like Speccy causing system problem - up to, and including BSOD. It's possible that Speccy induced the last occurrence of this problem, but not problem like that was involved in the first 2.

    I just ran the sfc scan and it found a problem that is subject of a very long thread (of yours): the opencl.dll problem:

    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a0 [SR] Beginning Verify and Repair transaction
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a1 Hashes for file member \SystemRoot\WinSxS\wow64_microsoft-windows-r..xwddmdriver-wow64-c_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10586.0_none_3dae054b56911c22\opencl.dll do not match actual file [l:10]"opencl.dll" :
    Found: {l:32 K3lezpDxFASqie1FeLtIjMB+9APl+XDp7TVGphCEKco=} Expected: {l:32 9rnAnuwzPjMQA7sW63oNAVhckspIngsqJXKYSUeQ5Do=}
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a2 [SR] Cannot repair member file [l:10]"opencl.dll" of microsoft-windows-RemoteFX-clientVM-RemoteFXWDDMDriver-WOW64-C, version 10.0.10586.0, arch Host= amd64 Guest= x86, nonSxS, pkt {l:8 b:31bf3856ad364e35} in the store, hash mismatch
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a3@2016/3/20:02:21:34.761 Primitive installers committed for repair
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a4 Hashes for file member \SystemRoot\WinSxS\wow64_microsoft-windows-r..xwddmdriver-wow64-c_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10586.0_none_3dae054b56911c22\opencl.dll do not match actual file [l:10]"opencl.dll" :
    Found: {l:32 K3lezpDxFASqie1FeLtIjMB+9APl+XDp7TVGphCEKco=} Expected: {l:32 9rnAnuwzPjMQA7sW63oNAVhckspIngsqJXKYSUeQ5Do=}
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a5 [SR] Cannot repair member file [l:10]"opencl.dll" of microsoft-windows-RemoteFX-clientVM-RemoteFXWDDMDriver-WOW64-C, version 10.0.10586.0, arch Host= amd64 Guest= x86, nonSxS, pkt {l:8 b:31bf3856ad364e35} in the store, hash mismatch
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a6 [SR] This component was referenced by [l:125]"Microsoft-Windows-RemoteFX-VM-Setup-Package~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~10.0.10586.0.RemoteFX clientVM and UMTS files and regkeys"
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a7 Hashes for file member \??\C:\WINDOWS\SysWOW64\opencl.dll do not match actual file [l:10]"opencl.dll" :
    Found: {l:32 K3lezpDxFASqie1FeLtIjMB+9APl+XDp7TVGphCEKco=} Expected: {l:32 9rnAnuwzPjMQA7sW63oNAVhckspIngsqJXKYSUeQ5Do=}
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a8 Hashes for file member \SystemRoot\WinSxS\wow64_microsoft-windows-r..xwddmdriver-wow64-c_31bf3856ad364e35_10.0.10586.0_none_3dae054b56911c22\opencl.dll do not match actual file [l:10]"opencl.dll" :
    Found: {l:32 K3lezpDxFASqie1FeLtIjMB+9APl+XDp7TVGphCEKco=} Expected: {l:32 9rnAnuwzPjMQA7sW63oNAVhckspIngsqJXKYSUeQ5Do=}
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052a9 [SR] Could not reproject corrupted file [l:23 ml:24]"\??\C:\WINDOWS\SysWOW64"\[l:10]"opencl.dll"; source file in store is also corrupted
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052aa@2016/3/20:02:21:34.792 Primitive installers committed for repair
    2016-03-19 19:21:34, Info CSI 000052ab [SR] Repair complete

    I can't tell how serious this problem is. I also can't tell how disruptive the Dism command is, so I'm taking backups first. I'm going to hold off on the repair upgrade for now.

    I have the ASUS Z87-A MB. (I'm not familiar with Z87-A NFC Express Edition, but I assume I'd know if I had it. )
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    20 Mar 2016 #6
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    Do you have the newest version of Speccy i have heard issues with this program in older versions ? I do not think at all Speccy can cause you problems or induce problems by running it at all. As far as the Opencl.dll is due to Microsoft finding the one used by NVIDIA Drivers to be wrong and replaces it with the Microsoft opencl.dll, this is a known issue for some still.

    Before i asked as i see 3 different Motherboards from the ASUS Site. There is no motherboard with numbers you gave me now and from what i see you list integrated graphics in your specs here and on ASUS site they are Intel you were having issues with NVIDIA Driver through SFC . Did you add a PCI slot card that is not listed in your specs ? If not sure of the model number of the motherboard, open the case and look it should be listed on it.

    What exactly is happening at shutdown ? So telling me everything besides an occasional freeze with Speccy and improper shutdown this is only issues ? DISM Command is not dangerous at all. Did you complete both when you did these commands, SFC and DISM ?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    20 Mar 2016 #7
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 384
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by jds63 View Post
    Do you have the newest version of Speccy i have heard issues with this program in older versions ? I do not think at all Speccy can cause you problems or induce problems by running it at all.
    I have the latest version of Speccy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jds63 View Post
    As far as the Opencl.dll is due to Microsoft finding the one used by NVIDIA Drivers to be wrong and replaces it with the Microsoft opencl.dll, this is a known issue for some still.

    Before i asked as i see 3 different Motherboards from the ASUS Site. There is no motherboard with numbers you gave me now and from what i see you list integrated graphics in your specs here and on ASUS site they are Intel you were having issues with NVIDIA Driver through SFC . Did you add a PCI slot card that is not listed in your specs ? If not sure of the model number of the motherboard, open the case and look it should be listed on it.
    I'm confused about the graphics driver problem. The SFC scan reported the problem. I don't have an NVIDIA graphics card. (I have no interest in, or need for, high performance graphics.) I use the onboard Intel HD Graphics 4600 chip. Perhaps I should install the latest Intel driver from ASUS, but I'm not sure that would simplify the situation. And anyway, I have no obvious graphics problems. I suspect I don't really care that SFC found a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by jds63 View Post
    What exactly is happening at shutdown ? So telling me everything besides an occasional freeze with Speccy and improper shutdown this is only issues ? DISM Command is not dangerous at all. Did you complete both when you did these commands, SFC and DISM ?
    As I said before, I usually have no problem at all, but the 3 times I had a problem the Shutdown process just hung displaying "Shutting down" and displaying the little limping circle. I waited about 5 minutes each time and then powered off the PC.

    Each time, I first noticed some kind of performance problem. The first thing I usually do when I have performance problems is launch Process Explorer. Each time, it would not start. So I tried launching something else; no new program would start. But running programs (like my email client or browser) still worked. Ctrl-Alt-Del would bring up its menu, but clicking on Task Manager would do nothing. Clicking the Windows icon would bring up the start menu but clicking on a program name or icon in the menu did nothing. Clicking on Power would bring up its menu, and clicking on Shutdown would initiate the process, but as I said before, the process would hang.
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  8.    20 Mar 2016 #8
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeefe0001 View Post
    I have the latest version of Speccy.



    I'm confused about the graphics driver problem. The SFC scan reported the problem. I don't have an NVIDIA graphics card. (I have no interest in, or need for, high performance graphics.) I use the onboard Intel HD Graphics 4600 chip. Perhaps I should install the latest Intel driver from ASUS, but I'm not sure that would simplify the situation. And anyway, I have no obvious graphics problems. I suspect I don't really care that SFC found a problem.



    As I said before, I usually have no problem at all, but the 3 times I had a problem the Shutdown process just hung displaying "Shutting down" and displaying the little limping circle. I waited about 5 minutes each time and then powered off the PC.

    Each time, I first noticed some kind of performance problem. The first thing I usually do when I have performance problems is launch Process Explorer. Each time, it would not start. So I tried launching something else; no new program would start. But running programs (like my email client or browser) still worked. Ctrl-Alt-Del would bring up its menu, but clicking on Task Manager would do nothing. Clicking the Windows icon would bring up the start menu but clicking on a program name or icon in the menu did nothing. Clicking on Power would bring up its menu, and clicking on Shutdown would initiate the process, but as I said before, the process would hang.
    It's known this opencl.dll will occur with other software drivers like AMD, but never saw it with Intel. I did not mean you need to go buy a better Graphics card. Just reinstall or install the latest Display Adapter drivers for this Intel. SFC issue is not going to cause you a problem i even still get it to this day with my NVIDIA, seems to be an issue with Microsoft and Windows 10.

    Hangs like this at shutdown can be caused by a process that will not shutdown properly causing it to hang waiting for it to shutdown.
    Use Task Manager also before shutting down make sure there is nothing running in application list in the Process tab then look down rest of list for non-microsoft processes try to identify some program that may still be running. This is one cause of this to happen. You use Process explorer can determine it with this software. Look at also startup items in Task Managers startup tab to.

    My last suggestion in post # 4 is an option to, but backup all that is important before doing it. You need to make sure all system drivers for your motherboard are up to date regardless doing this inplace repair upgrade option and even after it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    25 Mar 2016 #9
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts : 384
    Win10 x64 Pro -2 desktops, 1 laptop
    Thread Starter

    Some new information. Today I had one of the hangups. I was, for whatever reason, trying to compare the Quicktime player and VLC player for playing MP3 files. This was probably the 1st time I've tried Quicktime since upgrading to Win 10. (It was also the last time. I deleted it.) Anyway, Quicktime opened a window and then did nothing. As often happens when I start a program, I heard an external drive crank up (even though I have program libraries on any external drive), and then nothing.

    I tried starting Resource Monitor and expected the UAC popup (which I purposely have set). No popup.
    I tried a Ctrl-Alt-Del. Nothing.
    I had a couple Firefox windows open. Both worked. And I could open a new one.
    I had Thunderbird email client running. I could read email.
    I had Sibelius music notation software running. It worked.

    In other words, things that had been running still were working. New threads in running programs could be created. But Quicktime was hung and no new programs would start.

    After spending about 5 minutes trying to figure what worked and what didn't, I decided to wait for awhile before rebooting, so I walked away from the PC. 10 minutes later I came back and there was the Ctrl-Alt-Del screen. I cancelled out of it, and there was the UAC pop-up. In fact, everything was back to normal except the Quicktime window was gone (and I very well may have had a Close pending on that window so it should have been gone.)

    I foolishly did not immediately look for event records or note the time so now I have to guess which, if any, event records correspond to the hangup. I don't think there are any from that time, but I can't be sure.
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  10.    25 Mar 2016 #10
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    N.Y.
    Posts : 3,069
    Windows 10 Pro 64 bit

    Not sure what you are trying to prove by installing other software when you still having issues with this PC. Already said certain software like browsers worked. There are many reasons as shown before for hangs and freezes i posted a link from a website on it if you look back.

    You installed this back last fall any thoughts on a clean custom install or reset of Windows 10 or a inplace repair upgrade i suggested but you never responded to it as this may solve the issues if with the operating system. Also system drivers updates which i mentioned and tried to get the exact motherboard so i can help you find them, again i never received this info, open the case look for exact model of the board as this can cause your issues, outdated and corrupt drivers. Sometimes issue can be conflicting drivers or software,but you never wanted to try even safe mode. Hard to help if you wish not to follow most of what is asked to do.

    Up to you, most others are going to go through similar kinds of troubleshooting steps. You tend to jump over what is asked. I understand if you want to do it the way you want to do it, but just makes it more difficult for us to help you if you want the help.
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