1.    26 Jan 2015 #1
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 114
    WIndows 10

    Why does Microsoft install Apps on a local account?


    I have clean installed build 9626 more than once on a desktop computer and have booted many times. I use a local account only which is an option in the installation if you scroll down on the page where a new account can be established with Microsoft you will see use a local account, not reccomended. The installation installs Apps that won't work with a local account. Why is that? The other problem I've had is a dead start menu, Action Center and Cortana. I don't care about or want Cortana. I know there is a registry hack to bring back the previous Start Menu.

    I have installed build 9926 with a Microsoft account and everything was rosy but I don't want to logon to Microsoft and I don't want the Apps. I would like an option during installation that asks if I'm going to use a local account only and then eliminate installing Apps and Cortana. At this point I don't even care how the Start Menu is organized as long as it works.

    I realize I am going against the grain but I think most companies will agree with me. The desktop computer when used as a tool to get work done doesn't need the added bling that Microsoft has thrown in on their Windows software. I am all for anyone who wants the extras but please make an option to leave it out.
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  2.    26 Jan 2015 #2
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,393
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    Hi and welcome to TenForums,
    You can sign into apps separately like the Feedback app to post items like you have here
    There is also the new Hub app to do the same

    Obviously 10 is a preview build so the apps being installed is expected,
    You can right click most of them and Uninstall

    I use a local account too and sign into just the 2 apps I already pointed out with the same Microsoft account as I did for the insider program so I can give my feedback on new features what I like and don't like otherwise if you don't use at least the feedback app I don't see why you would use 10tp ?
    Cheers.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    26 Jan 2015 #3
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Because Microsoft is more than just Windows. They want to make it as easy as possible for you to use other services (OneDrive, Mail, Skype, MS Store, etc). It's not all about marketing, but that is part of why they include apps on a machine with a local sign-in.

    The apps they install are all free. Some such as OneDrive and Skype can lead directly to additional revenue (Skype phone credits, OneDRive cloud storage) - but, and this is important - you can use those services without incurring additional cost. I speak with people all over the world on Skype - doesn't cost me a penny as long as we all Skype. I can also use Skype to call landlines - but I have to purchase credits to do that, so I don't. OneDrive starts you off with 15GB of storage - free. If you need more, you can pay for it, I have plenty with 15GB.

    Some of the apps are to showcase Modern apps and give people exposure to the new Windows... Windows across the board will have the same look and feel (Desktop, laptop, tablet, phone). It's actually about time they pulled all of the interfaces together so you don't have to learn 3 if you have a desktop, a tablet , and a phone. Win10 is supposedly - we'll see how well they pull this off - consolidating your computing use into one experience. Your typing a report on a laptop and you have to rush out to catch a train, you can finish the report on the train and present it at your destination.

    Yeah, I know ... there's a lot to be worked out. But they are working on it. Cool!
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  4.    26 Jan 2015 #4
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 114
    WIndows 10
    Thread Starter

    Thanks for the reply. Have you done a clean install of build 9926 and used only a local account? I know several people who have and they like me can't use the start menu without a registry hack. Like my apps, their apps will start but fail because of the lack of a Microsoft account. I have already uninstalled the apps Microsoft loads and I did that on WIN 8/8.1 too. Why should I have to? I use my PC to get things done. It isn't a toy. I've added a user with a Microsoft account so I could use the feedback app. I've signed on to it and told Microsoft what I found and what I didn't like. When I use that account most everything works except a small problem I've seen in workgroup networking. If I don't test Windows 10 now when am I supposed to? I know of a lot of companies that won't like Windows 10 in its current form. I hope it will be fixed so it can be used for work. I'm not sure you understand the reason for my post. I want an operating system that I can put in a business that runs 24 hours a day with people sharing it. I don't want people having to sign on to Microsoft or going to Microsoft's Store to buy apps either. If Windows 7 has to be kept forever then so be it.
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  5.    27 Jan 2015 #5
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 114
    WIndows 10
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    Because Microsoft is more than just Windows. They want to make it as easy as possible for you to use other services (OneDrive, Mail, Skype, MS Store, etc). It's not all about marketing, but that is part of why they include apps on a machine with a local sign-in.

    The apps they install are all free. Some such as OneDrive and Skype can lead directly to additional revenue (Skype phone credits, OneDRive cloud storage) - but, and this is important - you can use those services without incurring additional cost. I speak with people all over the world on Skype - doesn't cost me a penny as long as we all Skype. I can also use Skype to call landlines - but I have to purchase credits to do that, so I don't. OneDrive starts you off with 15GB of storage - free. If you need more, you can pay for it, I have plenty with 15GB.

    Some of the apps are to showcase Modern apps and give people exposure to the new Windows... Windows across the board will have the same look and feel (Desktop, laptop, tablet, phone). It's actually about time they pulled all of the interfaces together so you don't have to learn 3 if you have a desktop, a tablet , and a phone. Win10 is supposedly - we'll see how well they pull this off - consolidating your computing use into one experience. Your typing a report on a laptop and you have to rush out to catch a train, you can finish the report on the train and present it at your destination.

    Yeah, I know ... there's a lot to be worked out. But they are working on it. Cool!
    Thanks for the information. I've used Skype and other programs. My personal computers are loaded with software I've purchased like Photoshop and MSOffice. I think there needs to be an option that allows me to skip a Microsoft account, apps, Cortana and still be able to use the rest of the OS. I know there are many people who never let their smartphones out of their hands but I'm looking at the use of desktops in businesses where approved software is usually run. I think the Store app would be a nightmare for a company that has thousands of PCs to support. I know how employees like to experiment. I'm in the minority when it comes to how hobbyists see Windows 8/8.1/10 but I think some companies will agree with me. Windows 8 hasn't gone over with some companies I know of and Windows 10 won't either unless Microsoft gives them a way to opt out of the Microsoft account and the apps. The start menu does look better. I think Windows 10 will be popular with a certain set of people who are hip on Smartphones and tablets.
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  6.    27 Jan 2015 #6

    Hi there

    It's called "Monetisation".

    However having all these external services IMO is a TURN OFF for Enterprise situations where usually I.T admins need to keep control over the computers connected to the work LAN's.

    There definitely should be a way for eliminating any app that needs an external service before it launches.

    I'm not sure if it actually IS a good idea to have the same interface on every type of computing device -- I'm not designing Engines on a small mobile phone screen or tiny tablet, meanwhile I generally these days don't bother with a computer if I just want to buy a train ticket - mobile phone works ideally for that purpose - especially with the m-ticket system where you just present the Barcode to a reader at the train terminal.

    Touch entry on a phone is fine for the m-ticket purchase but on the Engine design I need a whole slew of drawings, EXCEL calculations, reference data etc all on several windows or monitors even. Totally different interface needed.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  7.    27 Jan 2015 #7
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Posts : 804
    10 Pro Preview x64

    In windows 8 you could remove them with powershell command Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online (http://www.thewindowsclub.com/erase-...apps-windows-8. ) If you just uninstall it leaves them in C:/ProgramFiles/WindowsApps and will be added back for new accounts you create (and will remain on other accounts on your system).

    I just tested this on 9926 and you end up with no start menu at all and search doesn't work - so for Windows 10 this is clearly not a good solution. I have some restoring to do again
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  8.    27 Jan 2015 #8
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 941
    Windows 8.1, Win10Pro

    Thanks for the reply. Have you done a clean install of build 9926 and used only a local account? I know several people who have and they like me can't use the start menu without a registry hack. Like my apps, their apps will start but fail because of the lack of a Microsoft account.
    I installed 9926 locally and can use the Start Menu just fine. But, I do have an MS Account, just don't want to use it to login to Windows. Maybe having the account makes the difference.
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  9.    27 Jan 2015 #9
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Please allow me to offer some explanatory notes before you read my reply to your post.
    • I'm an old man who spent his entire career in the computer industry.
    • I try not to judge anyone on any basis
    • Win10 is a work in progress
    • Many members are testing Win10 and take that testing seriously
    • Most members love Win7
    • Many members also love Win8, although some haven't seen the improvement and wrongfully, IMO, sing the same old tired song
    • Members generally like the early releases of Win10 and appreciate the opportunity to test early than previous versions, as well as the opportunity to provide meaningful feedback to shape Win10 as development progresses


    My reply might sound curt, but it is the best I could do without spending an inordinate amount of time on it.

    Someone might think I'm saying "Hey, you kid ... get off my lawn". I'm not, on the contrary I think people who aren't singing the praises of Microsoft are often the best testers. They look for things that are broken or not easy to use, they don't know the workarounds or the way to get something to work. They shouldn't have to know those things when they first start using the system - it would help to know more before you commit to an OS, but ... no one reads the manual first.

    Some of that is just part of transition and there is a learning curve, some of that makes sense.
    What you do next is the difference - vent or invent.

    People, and I'm one, forget that F1 is help or that search finds things easier than drilling down though Explorer looking for something you're not sure of - trying to find a clue that will ease your frustration. I've done the same things everyone else has when I run into something I don't understand or can't figure out. I get frustrated too, but I have an edge. I know MS is too big and has been in business too long to really break things - most of the previous system is still under the covers. And not everything can be presented to the GUI - you might have to roll your own something or other. The good thing is that you can!

    The lovefest for Win7 or hatefest for Win8 ends with Win10. Those opinions only matter if they are put to constructive use - feedback to MS. In reality they have no direct bearing on Win10, you can't compare dissimilar objects and expect them to be the same (Apples and Oranges)


    I welcome everyone who will test Win10 as the next Windows Operating system without prejudice or reflection on previous versions of Windows.
    Win10 is Windows of tomorrow, not yesterday or the day before.

    Bill
    .




    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Have you done a clean install of build 9926 and used only a local account?
    Yes, on two installs (ISO on a physical primary machine and a Preview Build update on a Hyper-V machine running on Win8.1)
    - I only use a local account.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    I know several people who have and they like me can't use the start menu without a registry hack
    That hasn't been my experience - I can use the start menu or the start screen. On the machine with no Internet the Start search doesn't work, but the Modern Search app does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    Like my apps, their apps will start but fail because of the lack of a Microsoft account.
    Also this hasn't been my experience, all apps or just some? Which ones? Does your system meet the minimal Win10 requirements?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    I have already uninstalled the apps Microsoft loads and I did that on WIN 8/8.1 too. Why should I have to? I use my PC to get things done. It isn't a toy. I've added a user with a Microsoft account so I could use the feedback app. I've signed on to it and told Microsoft what I found and what I didn't like. When I use that account most everything works except a small problem I've seen in workgroup networking. If I don't test Windows 10 now when am I supposed to? I know of a lot of companies that won't like Windows 10 in its current form. I hope it will be fixed so it can be used for work. I'm not sure you understand the reason for my post. I want an operating system that I can put in a business that runs 24 hours a day with people sharing it. I don't want people having to sign on to Microsoft or going to Microsoft's Store to buy apps either. If Windows 7 has to be kept forever then so be it.
    I'm pretty much in the same camp - the only difference is that I accept Win10 is a work in progress and that Microsoft isn't writing Win10 just for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    Thanks for the information. I've used Skype and other programs. My personal computers are loaded with software I've purchased like Photoshop and MSOffice. I think there needs to be an option that allows me to skip a Microsoft account
    There is and I've argued the case here and submitted Feedback to MS. Since I didn't have Internet on the clean install machine I wasn't offered a MS account. That's a workaround - disconnect before you install and you only get a local account. The account install choices at install time need to be crystal clear. I was hoping that 9926 would show some improvement, based on your post, it sounds just as confusing as it was. I'll see the options when I do my 3rd install - the Preview update on the 2nd install didn't go though the account setup, so I have yet to see how it is in 9926.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    ...I think there needs to be an option that allows me to skip..
    , apps, Cortana and still be able to use the rest of the OS
    It would be nice and it might be that way when MS is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looey View Post
    I'm looking at the use of desktops in businesses where approved software is usually run. I think the Store app would be a nightmare for a company that has thousands of PCs to support. I know how employees like to experiment. I'm in the minority when it comes to how hobbyists see Windows 8/8.1/10 but I think some companies will agree with me.

    Windows 8 hasn't gone over with some companies I know of and Windows 10 won't either unless Microsoft gives them a way to opt out of the Microsoft account and the apps.

    The start menu does look better. I think Windows 10 will be popular with a certain set of people who are hip on Smartphones and tablets.
    Are you in IT? The IT department is responsible for securing comp nay assets. They will lock down what they don't want running. Don't worry about that. As far as Win8 goes ... Win10 isn't Win8 - period.

    Are you speaking rhetorically or from some real basis about companies. I have worn many hats and I just can't see where you're getting these ideas.

    Win10, when finished will be the most popular version of Windows. MS is really working hard to make it a hardened system. They are listening to our feedback and the changes they prioritized are put in the next Preview release. Give them a break this time.

    If you're happy with Win7 or Win8, stay on what works for you. No one is forcing Win10 on anyone - it's not a product yet. Sure, they're marketing the hell out of it - that's smart business!

    If you want to test Win10, please continue. If you run into issues (you will in alpha code) and want help, please post specific information. If you just want to vent ..... I suppose you can do that too, but it gets tiring.

    We're being given the opportunity to make Windows better, more the way we want to see it and use it. This is historic - regular users getting a look at alpha code - and the ability to provide feedback. It used to be only select engineers had that opportunity. You can waste your time or you can put your time to better use. I think you understand the concept because you already submitted feedback. That's good.

    Please keep three things in mind if you continue testing Win10
    1) It isn't finished, it will change, it will break and be fixed
    2) You can affect the final product through feedback
    3) MS gets a lot of feedback - you're not going to get a custom Win10 just for you.
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