Windows Photo Viewer does not show correct colours edited by Photoshop

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  1. Posts : 54
    windows 10 home 64b.
       #1

    Windows Photo Viewer does not show correct colours edited by Photoshop


    Windows Photo Viewer does not show correct colours edited by Adobe Camera Raw.

    PC : Desktop, Windows 10 Home 64b. 20H2.
    Image: RAW files post processed by Photoshop & saved as TIFF images.

    Notes for this PC :
    1. Used only for processing photographs. Nothing else.
    2. Not connected to internet except update manually.
    3. Only one 3rd party APP, Photoshop, installed.

    The incident:
    On Mar 5 2021,while editing a RAW file in ACR(Adobe Camera Raw), something happened suddenly,the image became extremely large, so large that it was illegible, & the PC became dead.

    Restarted the PC & continued the RAW file processing in ACR. Everything seemed normal. And, as usual, saved the edited images in TIFF format.

    But, not everything normal when the images were opened by Windows Photo Viewer, it could not & still cannot show the colours that had been edited by ACR.

    When a TIFF image was opened by Windows Photo Viewer, the image was, for about 0.5 second, as good as it had been edited by ACR, then it became dull, brightness reduced and colours became dull, blue became dark grey, for example.

    Is it a Windows Photo Viewer issue?
    I am not a computer expert. I do not know.
    But the following facts tell something:
    1.Since the XP years until today, I always view my images in Windows Photo Viewer. Never had any problems until the above said incident happened on Mar. 5, 2021.
    2.After Mar.5, I tried to view the same images in other image-viewers, Faststone for example, everything is as normal as edited by ACR.
    I, therefore, guess the issue is due to Windows Photo Viewer. This is only a layman's assumption. Beg your pardon first if I am wrong.

    Help me get rid of this trouble, please. Grateful to everyone trying to help.
    Diano
      My Computer

  2. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,310
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #2

    @Diano

    Yeah, that's normal because Photo Viewer is not color managed like Photoshop. Photo Viewer just uses sRGB for it's color profile whereas Photoshop can use a myriad of profiles.

    If you want Photo Viewer to match your images, you'll need to save them in the sRGB color profile. Something I wouldn't do with my master images as a professional photographer.

    As a Photoshop user I use "ProPhoto" as my working color profile and save my masters images as a tiff in that profile. For images going to my website, I create a jpeg copy in sRGB for posting there or other sites. If I open my tiff files (and it's not about the file format, but color profile) in Photo Viewer they will not look right because they're saved in the ProPhoto profile. The same would be true even if I saved in Adobe RGB since as I said, Photo Viewer only supports the Windows native sRGB color profile.

    And Photoshop is a closed environment (separate from Windows) with its own color management system, so what's set there color wise will not be affected by Windows (and vice versa).

    There's also the issue of monitor calibration, but that's really only comes into play when printing.

    Hope this helps.
      My Computers

  3. x509's Avatar
    Posts : 853
    Windows 10 Pro
       #3

    sygnus21 said:
    @Diano

    Yeah, that's normal because Photo Viewer is not color managed like Photoshop. Photo Viewer just uses sRGB for it's color profile whereas Photoshop can use a myriad of profiles.
    [ .... ]
    And Photoshop is a closed environment (separate from Windows) with its own color management system, so what's set there color wise will not be affected by Windows (and vice versa).

    There's also the issue of monitor calibration, but that's really only comes into play when printing.

    Hope this helps.
    I thought that Photoshop and Lightroom can share the same color profile. Or am I oversimplifying?
      My Computers

  4. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,310
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #4

    x509 said:
    I thought that Photoshop and Lightroom can share the same color profile. Or am I oversimplifying?
    Yes, Lightroom and Photoshop (CC (subscription)) share the same working color profile. In fact the color profile you set in Lightroom will be imported into Photoshop. This to to help keep your color management consistent between the two.

    That said, that's got nothing to do with Windows or Windows Photo viewer. Again PS & LR are closed off systems.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 54
    windows 10 home 64b.
    Thread Starter
       #5

    sygnus21 said:
    @Diano

    Yeah, that's normal because Photo Viewer is not color managed like Photoshop. Photo Viewer just uses sRGB for it's color profile whereas Photoshop can use a myriad of profiles.

    If you want Photo Viewer to match your images, you'll need to save them in the sRGB color profile. Something I wouldn't do with my master images as a professional photographer.

    As a Photoshop user I use "ProPhoto" as my working color profile and save my masters images as a tiff in that profile. For images going to my website, I create a jpeg copy in sRGB for posting there or other sites. If I open my tiff files (and it's not about the file format, but color profile) in Photo Viewer they will not look right because they're saved in the ProPhoto profile. The same would be true even if I saved in Adobe RGB since as I said, Photo Viewer only supports the Windows native sRGB color profile.

    And Photoshop is a closed environment (separate from Windows) with its own color management system, so what's set there color wise will not be affected by Windows (and vice versa).

    There's also the issue of monitor calibration, but that's really only comes into play when printing.

    Hope this helps.
    Thank you.

    These facts confuse me:

    1.From Jan. 2016 to Mar. 2021, for more than five years, all my photographic RAW files were post processed by PS & saved in TIFF format & viewed in Photo Viewer of Windows 10 & did not have any issue.

    2.About the question related to sRGB & Adobe RGB, for more than five years since the purchase of this PC, and PS was installed in Jan. 2016, never bothered with sRGB or Adobe RGB & never had any problem viewing TIFF images in Photo Viewer.

    3.Third party free photo viewers, even a three star one, Honeyview, can view the TIFF images without any problem.

    It is hard not to suspect that either Windows 10 or its Photo Viewer went wrong on Mar.5 2021.

    Diano
      My Computer

  6. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,310
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #6

    First things first.... Are you talking about the default "Photos" app installed on Windows 10? Or did you install the old "Windows 7 "Photo Viewer" app? That may make a slight difference but what I stated earlier still applies.

    And the "difference" with the "Photos" app is Microsoft "tweaked" it to "enhance colors"' however it still used the Windows default sRGB color space - in keeping things simple.
      My Computers

  7. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,310
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #7

    Confused - "Photo Viewer" vs. "Photos" under Windows 10


    Ok, I admit, I'm confused and "thought" I understood "Windows" photo apps - whether "Photo Viewer" or the "Photos" app, and especially under Windows 10. And trust me, I have a good understanding of color management and somewhat of Windows. That said, some surprises hit me today...

    First, Windows 10 provides comes with a default Photo app aptly called "Photos". It was said to have replaced the old Windows 7 "Photo Viewer" app. And in fact, and as I now see, if you open an image saved in the "sRGB" color space, and provided you've not changed any defaults, the "Photos" app will be used to open the image. Stands to reason since the "Photos" app is the Windows 10 default photo (image) viewer.

    However, I just found that if I attempt to open a RAW (for me Nikon NEF) file, or tiff file.... Windows 10 will use the Photo Viewer app to open those files (assuming you've not assigned a default app to open those files). Now, I've not installed the old Windows 7 "Photo Viewer" app on this clean install of Windows, so, I'm quite surprised to see it there, and this tells me, the old Photos app is still installed with Windows 10, but will only be used for non-jpeg/PNG files. That is, and from my experience... again, if I open a jpeg or PNG file, the Windows Photos app will be used. If I open a RAW or tiff file, the Photo Viewer app will be opened.

    With that, this is what I'm seeing, and thus now my color management confusion where Windows' photo viewing apps come into play. Below you see an image displaying the same image 3 times. Note the images are tiff files, saved in the ProPhoto color space via Photoshop...
    Windows Photo Viewer does not show correct colours edited by Photoshop-color-managed-apps.jpg

    The top left image is opened in the "Photo Viewer" app (the old Windows 7 app). The top right is opened in the "Photos" app. The bottom image is opened in Photoshop, which is color managed with a working color space of ProPhoto.

    Oddly, the Photo Viewer app (top left) has no issue in displaying the image correctly, and tells me it is recognizing (using) the ProPhoto color space. Top right image is opened in the default Windows 10 "Photos" app, and thus is NOT recognizing the "Pro Photo" color profile. The bottom middle image (Photoshop) is how the image is intended to look. Again, Photoshop is color managed and is setup to use ProPhoto as my working space. And all my finalized tiff images are saved in that color space - ProPhoto. When I post to an image to my website or online, I create a jpeg copy and save it in the sRGB color space since that is the "universal" color space all apps and browsers default to (use).

    BTW, (assuming you've not installed the old Win 7 Photo Viewer app), if you right click a jpeg image and chose "open With", you will NOT see the "Photo Viewer" option, even if you select "Choose another app". However, if you do the same by right clicking a tiff file, the option to open in Photo Viewer is listed as one of your top choices.

    Also, from the Photo Viewer app itself (again, assuming you didn't install it), you can't choose "File" and them "Open" as if to open another photo in the app. If you want to use the app, you'll have to do it from the "Open with" or click a tiff or RAW file and the image will use it as the viewer.

    That said, here's the same image saved in jpeg, and the sRGB color space (left is Photoshop, right is Photos)....
    Windows Photo Viewer does not show correct colours edited by Photoshop-photoshop-v-photos-srgb.jpg

    Note the right image using the "Photo" app looks "slightly" more saturated because Microsoft used an enhance colors algorithm on the Photos apps that you "used" to be able to disable, but with subsequent Windows updates has been removed, also the enhancements have been toned down, but it's still there.... thus the "slightly".

    At the end of the day, I've no idea about the whys and hows, or why what Microsoft is doing here. I do now know, it appears the "Photo Viewer" as defaulted into Windows 10 appears to be color managed where the "Photos" app is not.

    Another oddity.... clicking the blue question mark button (help button) takes you to.... a Bing search page looking for.... remote desktop

    All that said, there "may" be some merit to the OP's issue, and thus the questions. That said, we still need to determine what app their photos are using.... Photos or Photo Viewer.

    Yes, this is as clear as mud to me too. I'll need to do further research into this.
      My Computers

  8. sygnus21's Avatar
    Posts : 5,310
    Win 10 Pro (x64) 20H2 (19042.906)
       #8

    Found this in Brink's tutorial...

    Windows 10 uses the Photos app as the default app to open image files with instead now. By default, Windows Photo Viewer is no longer listed in Open with, and only has .tiff files associated with it in Default Programs.
    Tutorial - Restore Windows Photo Viewer in Windows 10
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 54
    windows 10 home 64b.
    Thread Starter
       #9

    Mr. Sygnus21.

    Thank you.

    The following is some new findings:

    1. RAW files processed in ACR and saved in TIFF format direct from ACR,
    A. TIFF file size is around 60~70MB each file.
    B. Photos can show the correct colours as edited in ACR.

    2. TIFF file opened to PS & edited in PS & saved again as TIFF format,
    A. TIFF file is about 80~95MB each file.
    B. The TIFF file size is not doubled.
    C. Photos can show the correct colours as edited in PS.

    3. If RAW file is edited in ACR & Opened Image to PS, no edit & then PS saved it as TIFF file,
    A. The TIFF file size is doubled.
    B. Photos CANNOT SHOW THE CORRECT COLOURS.

    Does this tell anything about the issue?

    Thank you.
    Diano
      My Computer

  10. x509's Avatar
    Posts : 853
    Windows 10 Pro
       #10

    Diano said:
    Mr. Sygnus21.

    Thank you.

    The following is some new findings:

    1. RAW files processed in ACR and saved in TIFF format direct from ACR,
    A. TIFF file size is around 60~70MB each file.
    B. Photos can show the correct colours as edited in ACR.

    2. TIFF file opened to PS & edited in PS & saved again as TIFF format,
    A. TIFF file is about 80~95MB each file.
    B. The TIFF file size is not doubled.
    C. Photos can show the correct colours as edited in PS.

    3. If RAW file is edited in ACR & Opened Image to PS, no edit & then PS saved it as TIFF file,
    A. The TIFF file size is doubled.
    B. Photos CANNOT SHOW THE CORRECT COLOURS.

    Does this tell anything about the issue?

    Thank you.
    Diano
    What is the size of your RAW files? Compressed? Which make and model DSLR?
      My Computers


 
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