Windows 10: Do I Need to Periodically Defragment a SSD?

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  1.    25 Nov 2017 #11

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    What @cereberus posted 100%. I just can't give it a like until I spread some more around!
    I can live with that .
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 447
    Ubuntu 18.04, win 8.1 pro
       25 Nov 2017 #12

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    No,

    moreover you should not defrag SSD if you want to extend its life, there is no fragmented ssd it works in a different way.


    It is false information that there is no fragmented SSD. SSDs do get fragmented. It's just that fragmentation on an SSD has no noticeable affect on it's performance.
    Since we're splitting the hair:):

    The word false has a negative connotation, you can surely correct me and explain me that it's wrong, but i was talking sensu lato,
    what i mean is that there is no fragmentation in SSD, simply because they work in a different way, i also think that fragmented SSD not only they do not suffer of fragmentation but they can actually work better.

    With fragmentation i mean:

    Fragmentation (computing) - Wikipedia:

    In computer storage, fragmentation is a phenomenon in which storage space is used inefficiently, reducing capacity or performance and often both.

    So i think that my answer is not false, bu instead a good hint.

    If i'm wrong i'm happy to learn.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3. Layback Bear's Avatar
    Posts : 994
    Windows 7/64 Professional
       25 Nov 2017 #13

    cereberus said: View Post
    How is this relevant?
    It matters because some manufactures of ssd's have their own tool box that takes care of all the needed maintenance. It works quite well on Intel ssd's. I would not suggest using it on other brands of ssd's. That is why it's relevant.

    Knowing what ssd's are being used could be helpful. Have a nice day.

    Such as Intel and their ssd ToolBox.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Intel Tool Box.PNG 
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      My ComputersSystem Spec

  4.    25 Nov 2017 #14

    Hi,

    With fragmentation i mean:

    Fragmentation (computing) - Wikipedia:

    In computer storage, fragmentation is a phenomenon in which storage space is used inefficiently, reducing capacity or performance and often both.
    That is only really the case for HDD's where there are moving mechanical parts to read and write data.
    Since SSD's have very low latency and no moving parts and moreover write and read memory cells in a totally different way any fragmentation is not going to slow it down.
    Even if a piece of software would tell you that an SSD is x% fragmented then this is not necessarily true since the true state of the ssd is not visible to the end user nor Windows itself.

    If you'd really want to reduce write cycles (reads are irrelevant for SSDs) then you'd need to invest in cacheing software that intercepts and caches the data to DRAM memory. Interesting stuff for datacenters surely.

    Cheers,
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  5. Posts : 447
    Ubuntu 18.04, win 8.1 pro
       25 Nov 2017 #15

    fdegrove said: View Post
    Hi,



    That is only really the case for HDD's where there are moving mechanical parts to read and write data.
    Since SSD's have very low latency and no moving parts and moreover write and read memory cells in a totally different way any fragmentation is not going to slow it down.
    Even if a piece of software would tell you that an SSD is x% fragmented then this is not necessarily true since the true state of the ssd is not visible to the end user nor Windows itself.

    If you'd really want to reduce write cycles (reads are irrelevant for SSDs) then you'd need to invest in cacheing software that intercepts and caches the to DRAM memory. Interesting stuff for datacenters surely.

    Cheers,
    Well, yes i understand that you agree with me.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    25 Nov 2017 #16

    A file is fragmented when it is written to non-contiguous storage locations on the drive and the filesystem must keep track of the different locations of the various bits of the file.

    This occurs in an SSD just as much as it occurs in a HDD, because it would be incredibly inefficient to be required to find a contiguous storage location for every file written, especially a 2 or 3 hundred GB system image file.

    Thus, there is no less fragmentation on an SSD than there is on a HDD. The difference is that the fragmentation on an SSD has no noticeable affect on its performance.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  7. Posts : 925
    Windows 10 Home x64 and Pro x86
       25 Nov 2017 #17

    RadCazz,

    You might also wish to note the [Windows 10] defrag.exe switches that cater for SSDs; you can see them & save them using a command in the form
    defrag /? >D:\Desktop\Defrag.txt

    • The switch /O ensures that optimisation takes account of the media type so only Trim ["Retrim"] is conducted on an SSD yet conventional defragging is carried out on other drive types.
    • The switch /L ensures that only Trim ["Retrim"] is conducted; you could use that switch if you were running the defrag operation on SSDs but not other drive types.


    There is a lot of useful guidance in How to Optimize and Defragment Drives - TenForums [tutorial]

    Denis
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    25 Nov 2017 #18

    Thanks everyone! Reputation spread around to all! Lots of info I digested - never heard of TRIM before.

    The tech at MicroCenter steered me away from Toshiba (said they're horrid) and recommended something Samsung. This is the description in Speccy:

    931GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 1TB

    So far, so good -> following fellow users suggestions. Can't thank you all enuff!

    However, and maybe this should go in another thread, but I've always wondered: Do gaming consoles that use regular hd, like PS3 and Xbox 360 ever get fragmented?
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    25 Nov 2017 #19

    I have that drive (amongst other SSDs), its a good drive. I use it to store my games on my old (insider) machine.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  10. Layback Bear's Avatar
    Posts : 994
    Windows 7/64 Professional
       26 Nov 2017 #20

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    A file is fragmented when it is written to non-contiguous storage locations on the drive and the filesystem must keep track of the different locations of the various bits of the file.

    This occurs in an SSD just as much as it occurs in a HDD, because it would be incredibly inefficient to be required to find a contiguous storage location for every file written, especially a 2 or 3 hundred GB system image file.

    Thus, there is no less fragmentation on an SSD than there is on a HDD. The difference is that the fragmentation on an SSD has no noticeable affect on its performance.


    I have defrag one of my Intel ssd's just for S & G. It did not help. Electrons move to fast for it to matter.

    Jack
      My ComputersSystem Spec


 
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