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  1.    06 Jul 2017 #11
    Join Date : Apr 2017
    Posts : 8,761
    windows 10 professional version 1607 build 14393.969 64 bit

    Quote Originally Posted by wvbirdman View Post
    but if idled overnight it rises to 30%.
    Consider using WIndows performance recorder (WPR) in normal startup and in clean boot.
    The challenge will be learning how to interpret the results or finding someone to interpret them.



    See the link below for installation and customization settings:
    To launch use administrative command prompt and type: wprui.exe
    Windows performance recorder - Microsoft Community
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    06 Jul 2017 #12
    Join Date : Jul 2017
    Posts : 21
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter

    Cortana is apparently built in to Win 10 and can not be disabled, only hidden.

    I have returned to normal startup with all services enabled.

    Regarding the items in the box above:
    1) Windows and browsing speed are much better than initially, but still a bit slow, and I sometimes get "Firefox is not responding"
    2) All restarts are now normal duration
    3 and 4) CPU performance is now 13% at idle with nothing open but Task manager. A click on any icon causes a jump to between 30 and 100%. If I open a few programs and let it idle, it settles down to between 30 and 60%; then if I just move the mouse, it drops back down to 13%! (For comparison, I checked a very similar model of computer also with Win 10; it idles at a steady 2% with nothing open but Task manager).

    I would be grateful for any more help you can provide, but I don't want to put you to a lot of trouble for what may no longer a major problem. Perhaps I should just use it for a week or two and see how it performs.

    Thanks.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    06 Jul 2017 #13
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,012
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Cortana is apparently built in to Win 10 and can not be disabled, only hidden.
    Sorry, you are misreading what I said: Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation is an odd one. If you disable 'Hey Cortana' (e.g. Windows key + S, click the settings icon, turn Hey... off you may find that reduces a lot.

    I'll provide pictures for you.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    (For what it's worth it is possible to stop Cortana running- probably. E.g.
    You can remove Cortana from Windows 10, but it's tricky | PCWorld

    But this is not something you should worry about right now- and can cause more trouble than it's worth
    ).

    A click on any icon causes a jump to between 30 and 100%. If I open a few programs and let it idle, it settles down to between 30 and 60%; then if I just move the mouse, it drops back down to 13%!
    After you have done the above, please try to capture a screenshot of the task manager when this happens- whichever view offers the most useful info.

    Repeat after a clean boot, and if still happening, compare Safe Mode.

    zbook's suggestion may offer further useful info.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    07 Jul 2017 #14
    Join Date : Jul 2017
    Posts : 21
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter

    Hey Cortana is apparently built in to Win 10 and cannot be disabled, only hidden.

    In answer to your 4 points above:
    1) As near as I can tell Windows now seems at normal speed. Browsing is still a bit slow and I occasionally get "Firefox is not responding" messages.

    2) Restarts now seem to be normal speed.

    3 & 4) 5 minutes after restart Task manager Performance graph now steadies at 13% at idle. After about 15-30 minutes it rises to 30%, but if I move the mouse, it returns immediately to 13%. Clicking on any icon causes a brief spike to between 30 and 100%.

    There seems to be considerable improvement, but this problem has been so slippery and changeable I wouldn't be surprised if it worsened again. Part of what I did before CPU dropped from 60% to 13% was to remove a number of programs I would like to have. At the end of this work I will add them one at a time several days apart keeping careful notes and restore points as you instructed. If they cause CPU to rise I will regrettably remove them again, but this would sacrificing features for speed which is still a problem.

    If you have any further suggestions I would be happy to hear them, but I don't want to waste your time working on what may not be a significant problem. Perhaps we should just wait for a week or two while the computer is in use and see what develops.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    07 Jul 2017 #15
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,012
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Hey Cortana is apparently built in to Win 10 and cannot be disabled, only hidden.
    Hi, As regards your CPU use and top process my point here is simple. Turn that off as shown in the screenshot (it's nothing to do with
    disabled, only hidden
    whatsoever. It' s simply turning Hey Cortana off so Cortana does not respond to your voice.

    That should mean cpu use due to Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation is much reduced.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    07 Jul 2017 #16
    Join Date : Jul 2017
    Posts : 21
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter

    Sorry, I accidentally sent the same post twice.

    Thanks for setting me straight on Hey Cortana. Turning it off dropped CPU Performance to 5% and audiodg.exe to a steady 0% in Normal start mode!Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 task mgr details.jpg 
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    **************************************************************************************************** ****
    Following is groups of screenshots after 3 types of start: ("right after previous" means after the work of taking a screenshot, pasting it in Paint, and saving it)

    NORMAL START
    idle 10 minutes after start Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 task mgr performance.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	161.8 KB 
ID:	142953 opened firefox Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 opened FF.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	185.0 KB 
ID:	142955
    idled 15 min with Firefox open Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 ff and task mgr idle 15.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	164.7 KB 
ID:	142956 right after previous Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 ff and task mgr idle 18.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	170.2 KB 
ID:	142957

    CLEAN BOOT
    idle 10 min after startClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 clean boot idle 20.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	164.0 KB 
ID:	142958 right after previousClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 clean boot idle right after previous shot.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	170.3 KB 
ID:	142959
    idle 20 min Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 clean boot idle 20.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	164.0 KB 
ID:	142958 idle 2 hours Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 clean boot idle 2 hours.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	174.6 KB 
ID:	142962

    SAFE MODE
    idle 10 min after startClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 safe mode idle.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	131.2 KB 
ID:	142952 right after previousClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 safe mode right after 1st shot.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	145.8 KB 
ID:	142963
    idle 20 minutesClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 safe mode idle 20 minutes.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	137.6 KB 
ID:	142964 idle 20 min and move mouseClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 7 safe mode idle 20 minutes and move mouse.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	150.3 KB 
ID:	142965
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    07 Jul 2017 #17
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,012
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Hi, Good. Idle use is fine.

    3rd screenshot- seems to take a long time to open firefox- mine doesn't even peak at 100% CPU.
    Note the internet use- try starting FF with a blank home page. I think that would let it start faster.
    (Naturally it's your choice what you use for your home page)

    4th screenshot- CPU use 50% with no other activity, FF open? That's odd.
    Suggest you investigate with Resource Monitor and task manager, Process, Details..
    - what specific processes are using CPU time?

    Also try starting FF in its Safe Mode (no addons). Compare startup time and CPU use.

    6th screenshot - 20-30% CPU use after clean boot - that's odd
    - again investigate with Resource Monitor and task manager, Process, Details.
    - what specific processes are using CPU time?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    07 Jul 2017 #18
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Los Angeles
    Posts : 260
    Windows 10 Pro 1709 x64

    In my opinion, per your computer specs I think you've pretty much trimmed down Windows 10's resource usage to the best without compromising functionality and with that most of your resources should be spent for the programs. In my case I have so many programs running on startup, but I do need all of them running so I can use most of the features available

    Click image for larger version. 

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      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    08 Jul 2017 #19
    Join Date : Jul 2017
    Posts : 21
    Windows 10 Home
    Thread Starter

    I ran the tests in your post #17 before I read your post #18. If #18 means that you think there is nothing more you can do I would certainly accept that, and be grateful for all your help, as I'm about ready to give up re-install Win 10 and start all over.

    Since I have already done the tests in post #17, I will include them below in case you want to look at them. Also a new symptom has turned up, which is part of what inclines me to give up: msconfig is stuck on selective startup. Every time I restart, whether in Normal, Clean, or Safe mode; after restart if I go immediately to msconfig, Selective Startup is pre-selected. If I select Normal Startup and restart, the same thing happens, so I guess now I can never be sure whether I am in Normal or Selective startup.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tests from post #17:
    NORMAL BOOT
    normal start, Firefox open, idleClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 normal ff idle (1).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	159.8 KB 
ID:	143083normal start ,idle, detailsClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 normal details (2).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	301.1 KB 
ID:	143084

    normal start ,Firefox in it's safe modeClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 normal start ff safe (3).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	170.4 KB 
ID:	143085same thing, laterClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 normal start ff safe later(3.5).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	165.6 KB 
ID:	143086

    normal start, Firefox restarted in it's safe modeClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8  normal start ff safe (4).jpg 
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ID:	143087

    CLEAN BOOT

    clean boot, nothing open, idle 10 minutesClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 clean boot idle 10 min (5).jpg 
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ID:	143088

    in clean boot, CPU performance varies a lot:
    processes during High CPUClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	143090
    processes during Low CPU
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 clean boot processes lo cpu (6).jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	188.1 KB 
ID:	143091

    details during high CPUClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 clean boot details when cpu running high.jpg 
Views:	1 
Size:	319.5 KB 
ID:	143092details during low CPUClick image for larger version. 

Name:	7 8 clean boot details when cpu running low (8).jpg 
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ID:	143093
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The performance graph you posted of your system looks just like what I see on my other very similar model computer with Win 10, and on my old Win 7 computer. I've never seen anything during idle like the image "clean boot nothing open idle 10 minutes" above.

    Thank you for your help.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    08 Jul 2017 #20
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    UK, Midlands
    Posts : 11,012
    Win 10 Pro (1703)

    Every time I restart, whether in Normal, Clean, or Safe mode; after restart if I go immediately to msconfig, Selective Startup is pre-selected. If I select Normal Startup and restart, the same thing happens, so I guess now I can never be sure whether I am in Normal or Selective startup.
    You could try using a restore point.

    clean boot, nothing open, idle 10 minutes
    - what's missing is which processes are responsible.
    - disk usage is 100% too.

    I'd not wish to guess what might be doing that..

    Given what you installed and ran (post 1) it's not clear what may have happened.

    Do check your disk (download install and run Hard Disk Sentinel (trial) ) and post a screenshot of its GUI.
    This is worth doing to be confident.

    Of course you can run
    chkdsk c: /F
    from an admin command prompt
    and
    sfc /scannow

    or do an in-place upgrade repair install
    but I'm not confident that would help.

    If you elect to do a clean install, what I recommend is
    a. you install Win 10 only, and test it for a while.
    b. If ok install e.g. Macrium Reflect (free) and create a base image. (Option Backup, Backup Windows)
    c. Update Windows.
    d. If ok, create a differential image
    e. Install e.g. 5 of your commonly used progs, checking each time.
    f. If ok, create a differential image
    g. Install more progs and If ok, create a differential image
    h. Repeat e. until a problem occurs or complete.
    Maintain a simple log of changes and images

    Continue to routinely use disk imaging. That way you (almost) always have a second chance.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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