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  1.    05 Dec 2016 #11
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 2,047
    Windows 10 Pro X64

    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by stealth2920 View Post
    I have mine turned off. I thought SSD's didn't need to be defragged at all. Is the optimize setting different than defrag? I'm confused.
    Defragmentation and Optimization:

    All drives suffer from files being split into different locations on a drive regardless what type of drive. This can become somewhat cumbersome on typical spinners because the heads need to travel to read these blocks causing latency.
    SSDs being so much faster, suffering hardly any latency at all, do not require defragmentation but do require garbage collection, i.e. cells that contain deleted or no longer used information need to be cleared and flagged as clean so these can be rewritten to.
    That's what "Optimization" does in Windows on an SSD. When on a HDD it will defrag instead.

    While you can defrag an SSD it causes quite a lot of writes on the drive which reduces its life. No big deal as modern SSDs can sustain an enormous amount of writes.
    But, given the low inherent latency of these SSDs, why bother ?

    Some people claim to never ever defrag their HDDs but instead restore an image of it. While this achieve the same end result it also rewrites everything on their drive instead of just reallocating the fragmented files. Not very disk friendly if you ask me even though they think otherwise....

    There's loads of BS on the net so don't believe everything you read but try to understand how SSD and their controllers works. After that, decide what best suits your needs.
    I'll be dilapidated for it but, yes, I do defragment SSDs occasionally....

    Cheers,
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    06 Dec 2016 #12
    Join Date : Jan 2015
    Texas
    Posts : 213
    Win 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by fdegrove View Post
    Hi,




    Defragmentation and Optimization:

    All drives suffer from files being split into different locations on a drive regardless what type of drive. This can become somewhat cumbersome on typical spinners because the heads need to travel to read these blocks causing latency.
    SSDs being so much faster, suffering hardly any latency at all, do not require defragmentation but do require garbage collection, i.e. cells that contain deleted or no longer used information need to be cleared and flagged as clean so these can be rewritten to.
    That's what "Optimization" does in Windows on an SSD. When on a HDD it will defrag instead.

    While you can defrag an SSD it causes quite a lot of writes on the drive which reduces its life. No big deal as modern SSDs can sustain an enormous amount of writes.
    But, given the low inherent latency of these SSDs, why bother ?

    Some people claim to never ever defrag their HDDs but instead restore an image of it. While this achieve the same end result it also rewrites everything on their drive instead of just reallocating the fragmented files. Not very disk friendly if you ask me even though they think otherwise....

    There's loads of BS on the net so don't believe everything you read but try to understand how SSD and their controllers works. After that, decide what best suits your needs.
    I'll be dilapidated for it but, yes, I do defragment SSDs occasionally....

    Cheers,
    Thanks for the info. I will just leave it turned on and let windows 10 do whatever. It is now set at default so it optimizes the SSD's once a week.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    06 Dec 2016 #13
    Join Date : Jun 2014
    UK
    Posts : 1,052
    W10 pro x64 and W8.1 x86

    I clean installed W10 onto an SSD and can confirm that the weekly schedule doesn't update as expected. I deliberately left it once and found that one partition that stores Macrium images (and so gets filled/deleted/filled/deleted) did eventually auto run after something like 20 days despite the partition being used daily for storing very large files (20Gb at a time plus sets of 0.2 to 2Gb).

    I consider it a bug in Windows operation in the same way the system reserved partition always reports as needing optimising.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    14 Dec 2016 #14
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    Norwich, UK
    Posts : 57
    Windows 10 Pro 1709 x64
    Thread Starter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooly View Post
    I clean installed W10 onto an SSD and can confirm that the weekly schedule doesn't update as expected. I deliberately left it once and found that one partition that stores Macrium images (and so gets filled/deleted/filled/deleted) did eventually auto run after something like 20 days despite the partition being used daily for storing very large files (20Gb at a time plus sets of 0.2 to 2Gb).

    I consider it a bug in Windows operation in the same way the system reserved partition always reports as needing optimising.
    Thanks for the information. I just came back to this thread to respond and saw I had loads of replies, it didn't notify me even though I set it to do so!

    Anyway like you I did a bit of an experiment - I noticed in Windows Defrag (or Microsoft Drive Optimiser as they now call it) that it was as high as "10 days since last run" even though as I've already said, I have it set to optimise weekly. I did wonder if it was one of those random Windows things where it needs to be on at 3AM in the morning (a lot of scheduled operations in Windows are like that, and the chances of my laptop or PC being on at that time are pretty much zero so it's kind of pointless!) so last night I decided to leave my laptop running all night long, thinking maybe it will kick in the defrag schedule and optimise the drive during the night. But no, woke this morning to see it still saying "10 days since last run", and I've never been notified of any "missed runs" despite that option being ticked in the defrag settings. Also like you say, the Recovery partition also says "Needs optimisation" always, yet you can't do anything with it.

    So long story short, basically I am going to have to remember to come into the defrag app every week or so and click "Optimise"?
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    14 Dec 2016 #15
    Join Date : Feb 2016
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts : 243
    Windows 10 Pro 1709 16299.19

    I think it depends on the manufacture. I have a couple of Samsung SSD's and they explicitly state that Defrag should be off. The reason being is that they supply a software component "Samsung Magician", that optimizes the drive and I assume it performs the trim function when required.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  6.    15 Dec 2016 #16
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 215
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

    I still can't understand why does defrag utility needs to TRIM SSDs when TRIM is enabled?
    Does this means that TRIM isn't always sent when deleting files?
    In my case it sometimes says Needs optimization
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    15 Dec 2016 #17
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Posts : 2,047
    Windows 10 Pro X64

    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by derek10 View Post
    I still can't understand why does defrag utility needs to TRIM SSDs when TRIM is enabled?
    Does this means that TRIM isn't always sent when deleting files?
    In my case it sometimes says Needs optimization
    Defragmenting is used for HDD, not SSDs.
    Optimization is sending a RETRIM command. It will say "Needs Optimization" for a number of reasons one of them being that the machine has seen not enough idle time for the OS to optimize the SSD in the background.
    Another being that optimization has not been run yet on a new drive or volume for instance.

    Cheers,
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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