Let's run Win10 on really really old hardware

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  1. Posts : 675
    Windows 7 Home Premium x64
       #421

    well spapakons the next challenge for 2020 would be to get the upcoming 20H1 release working on "really old" hardware
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  2. spapakons's Avatar
    Posts : 2,464
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1803 (April 2018 build 17134.950)
       #422

    I saw an important change in v1903 setup! It suggests to run Windows Update during installation, DO NOT DO IT! There is an option to choose how Update behaves and to postpone it for after setup. You should by all means AVOID any updates during setup (disconnect from internet to make sure). This will avoid any incompatibilities due to replacing working drivers with Microsoft drivers.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3. eLPuSHeR's Avatar
    Posts : 1,881
    Windows 10 Home x64
       #423

    Agreed. I have seen several issues if you have Internet connection while installing. Do it afterwards.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  4. Posts : 675
    Windows 7 Home Premium x64
       #424

    bobjoe said: View Post
    GUYS!!!!


    I don't know what happened, but my crappy LG laptop UPDATED TO 1903 WITH NO PROBLEMS!

    After reading Fafhrd's work with the iMac, I decided to try updating my Pentium M laptop that refused to update from 1709 to 1903 and gave BSOD's all the time.

    I literally did NOTHING different, I just ran the ISO directly from the desktop and it suddenly worked. I have no idea why, but it worked!

    I am now on 1903!
    that's very good news, bobjoe! welcome to the 1903 club!

    though Win10 v1903 was working on my mom's old Dell Inspiron e1405 (2007) laptop since it was RTMed back in late March 2019 with build 18362.1 w/ the Intel T2700 core duo (Yonah) cpu on there (btw, the "Yonah" series of Intel mobile cpus were also called "Enhanced Pentium Ms"). maybe the "refreshed" or re-released 1903 version like the build 18362.295 version finally improved or restored compatibility with your old LG laptop

    seems like the only version that did not work with old laptop cpus like Pentium Ms (and the Intel Yonah series cpus) was the 1809 version (which was an unmitigated disaster & was rushed to production too soon and gotten several re-releases to fix a bunch of problems but not the one that fixes compatibility problems with old mobile/laptop cpus)

    let's hope MS does not break compatibility with Pentium Ms with the next major version - 20H1 or 2003

    eLPuSHeR said: View Post
    Agreed. I have seen several issues if you have Internet connection while installing. Do it afterwards.
    that's what I've always been doing ever since Win10 RTM v1507. run setup w/out an internet connection (aka. "offline"). seems like in 1903 setup, an extra step is needed to prevent it from downloading updates during setup

    Edit 9/11, 6pm: here's a lovely screenshot of Win10 education 32bit version 1909/19H2 build 18363.356 on that old Dell e1405 laptop (ooohh yeah!)

    Let's run Win10 on really really old hardware-win10-v1909-education-sysinfo-delle1405.png
    Last edited by erpster4; 1 Week Ago at 19:59.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

  5. spapakons's Avatar
    Posts : 2,464
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1803 (April 2018 build 17134.950)
       #425

    It could be that Windows Update did not mess with critical device drivers during the upgrade to v1903, so you made it without any BSOD. It is a good idea to update all drivers (if possible) before upgrading to a new Windows 10 build, so it won't try to replace old working drivers and cause BSOD. Also there is an option to change Windows Update behavior before upgrade and prevent any updates before finishing setup. Make sure you disable updates before clicking next to begin the upgrade to the new build (this is done at first Setup screen, not from Windows Settings). Also I recommend installing Windows 10 32-bit in old computers, even if ther do have 4GB RAM, to maximize compatibility. Usually it is much easier to find 32-bit drivers for old hardware than 64-bit drivers. Even if the CPU is 64-bit capable it might not be 100% compatible with Windows 10 64-bit, why take that risk? I can assure you have zero benefit in performance in 64-bit over 32-bit Windows.

    PS: To help you decide, download all drivers before you start. Even if you can find 64-bit drivers for an old computer (not always the case), I recommend installing 32-bit instead if your RAM is up to 4GB. There is no point going 64-bit with 2GB RAM. It could actually be slower than the 32-bit version! Been there, done that...
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  6. Fafhrd's Avatar
    Posts : 1,951
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       #426

    Windows setup/PE has bugs that by their nature, are not reported back to Windows telemetry in the event of failure - since there is no working Windows system at the point of failure - many of these bugs are failure to work with hardware that has no WDDM driver, but even if there are no available drivers, setup/PE predominantly uses generic Windows drivers, which may fail at several levels - and problems like system interrupts due to IRQ conflicts using all the available CPU capacity,. when you finish Windows setup during OOBE can happen. This can lead to OOBE hanging due to timeouts when trying to input user data - "something happened" - type non-specific failures.
    My preferred method to avoid WinPE/Setup bugs and failures on old hardware that throws up spurious errors like no NX reported, when the processor does have that feature, is to apply the windows image from the windows.iso file in \sources\install.wim or \sources\install.esd using DISM or Imagex to the hard drive, connect to the windows BCD with bcdboot <drive letter>\windows and on the first boot, the OOBE should run.
    Secondly an answer file may be used for an unattended install - Kari is the expert on this forum - which removes the need for user interaction via monitor, keyboard, mouse or voice actuation.
    Installation to a drive may even be performed on a different machine (including a virtual hard drive, as in native VHD boot), and checked to see if it works there, before adding the drive back to the problem hardware.
    A general rule during setup is to isolate the machine from network or internet access, antivirus and malware (or any other running background) programs, any external devices such as i/o stuff like external keyboard, mouse, monitor, printer, scanner, camera, microphone, modem, drives including optical and USB-connected hardware. On old laptops it may be necessary to disconnect the battery, and run on an adapter for power and even remove internally connected cards like bluetooth, wi-fi adapters, sim card adapters etc., to have the best chance of success - it should be possible to add these one-at-a-time once Windows 10 has been installed and is running ok.
    I don't think that Microsoft deliberately excludes older hardware (except for processor instruction set capability) from installing newer versions of Windows 10, it's just that a setup failure hides those machines from telemetry and error checking, and those machines drop off the radar, so to speak.
    By fanatics like us pushing the boundary on older hardware running Windows 10 newer versions, it is helping to keep the older hardware supported, because every WER (Windows Error Reporting) issue ends up on somebody's desk eventually, and a small code change in a Windows generic driver may make all the difference in running, or not running Windows 10 versions on old kit.
      My ComputersSystem Spec


  7. bobjoe's Avatar
    Posts : 265
    Windows 10, 8.1, 7, and Vista
       #427

    erpster4 said: View Post
    Edit 9/11, 6pm: here's a lovely screenshot of Win10 education 32bit version 1909/19H2 build 18363.356 on that old Dell e1405 laptop (ooohh yeah!)
    Excellent!!!
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  8. Posts : 1,517
    Windows 10 Pro (32-bit) 16299.15
       #428

    Fafhrd said: View Post
    ...problems like system interrupts due to IRQ conflicts using all the available CPU capacity,. when you finish Windows setup during OOBE can happen. This can lead to OOBE hanging due to timeouts when trying to input user data - "something happened" - type non-specific failures.
    ........
    Secondly an answer file may be used for an unattended install - Kari is the expert on this forum - which removes the need for user interaction via monitor, keyboard, mouse or voice actuation.
    Just to add something on the OOBE timeouts. Apologies if I've already mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I did start a thread on the issues I was having on old/slow computers.
    Insider ISOs - can't get past OOBE stage

    I say slow computers because as well as my ancient laptops, I also get it with VirtualBox VMs, where I assume the drivers are more up to date, but it's running on a slow host machine and I assume it's that slow speed which is causing OOBE screens to timeout.

    As suggested, I've using the answer file approach - using Kari's tutorials to add an answer file to skip some of the OOBE screens - but other people (originally @TR3X77 but I think this writeup is clearer) have found workarounds such as adding a second admin user like this:
    TheRedeemer said: View Post
    Thanks TR3X77, I was able to get past the OOBE errors with your work-around on a fresh Win 10 install.

    Landed on one of the OOBE errors, then brought up the cmd prompt with Shift+F10 and typed:

    Code:
    net user administrator /active:yes
    net user /add owner mypassword
    net localgroup administrators owner /add
    cd %windir%\system32\oobe
    msoobe.exe
    Then I waited a full 15 minutes and powered off via the switch, since it was not continuing.

    After powering back on it continued setup and eventually put me on the Administrator desktop, so I chose log off, and logged into the "owner" account I created earlier. Then brought up lusrmgr.msc and disabled the Administrator account, and deleted the "defaultuser0" account that was orphaned during the failed setup due to the oobe errors.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9. spapakons's Avatar
    Posts : 2,464
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1803 (April 2018 build 17134.950)
       #429

    As a general rule, disconnect or disable any non-important device (printer, sound card, etc) so Windows will never attempt to update any working driver causing BSOD. Also disable or even uninstall any antivirus/antispyware etc to make sure it won't interrupt anything during update. For the remaining devices make sure you have the latest driver. Remember to disable Windows Update before starting Setup to prevent any updates before you have successfully installed the new build. Prefer 32-bit over 64-bit for older hardware with up to 4GB RAM. Following these rules will dramatically increase your chance to success.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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