Unable to navigate and open programs

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  1. Posts : 35,413
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #11

    Hi, it takes some experience of having worked through issues to have confidence in which way to go. These are pretty simple common steps so far.

    "Most programs wont open or when they do its 10-15 min to do so. No mouse at times. Unable to acsess start screen on other files. Will get stuck in a restart/shutdown which I will then do a hard reset."

    What we need to know is whether those basic symptoms disappeared or not when you were in Safe Mode, or after a clean boot. So I'll ask you

    Did those symptoms still appear when you were in Safe Mode?
    What strange behaviour did you notice, if any?

    Do those symptoms still appear after a clean boot?
    What strange behaviour did you notice, if any?

    Please be as exact as you can.

    We need a definitive answer as far as you can, as this will determine what to try next. Thanks
      My Computers


  2. Posts : 11
    Windows 10 10.0.10586
    Thread Starter
       #12

    In safe mode last night, it was responsive. My usual issue is with chrome not opening, mouse and start screen. All worked. After the clean boot last night, it also was responsive. Programs opened mouse was up etc. I have found that after a few hours, its right back to the same. I started my machine up this morning and we were right back to before. 10 min startup for Chrome. Start menu and mouse Are working though. I was in the control panel this morning wanting to look at my firewall settings. Not to change any, just to view what was in there. Its been trying to open this window for 15min, with no luck?

    The issue didn't appear to be present in safe mode, all be it I was in safe for only 10 min or so. Opening and closing different things. All of them Did function. After clean boot, No. The problem remains. Ex. I had a bluetooth icon show up on the task bar a few moments ago. I tried to open it as I shouldn't have any devices hooked up to it. 5 min later, it opened.
    The only that hasn't happened for your quoted portion of my original post, is the stuck in restart/shutdown loop. It restarts and shutsdown properly. I hope that helps. Next?

    dalchina said:
    Hi, it takes some experience of having worked through issues to have confidence in which way to go. These are pretty simple common steps so far.

    "Most programs wont open or when they do its 10-15 min to do so. No mouse at times. Unable to acsess start screen on other files. Will get stuck in a restart/shutdown which I will then do a hard reset."

    What we need to know is whether those basic symptoms disappeared or not when you were in Safe Mode, or after a clean boot. So I'll ask you

    Did those symptoms still appear when you were in Safe Mode?
    What strange behaviour did you notice, if any?

    Do those symptoms still appear after a clean boot?
    What strange behaviour did you notice, if any?

    Please be as exact as you can.

    We need a definitive answer as far as you can, as this will determine what to try next. Thanks
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 35,413
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #13

    Ok, thanks, so Safe Mode seems ok, but there's a problem if you do a clean boot.

    That suggests it's possibly a driver-related problem, assuming your system is clean of viruses etc.
    Make sure you have the minimum of devices connected to your PC.

    However, noting that you say things slow down after a while in clean boot mode, could you post screenshots of your task manager when things are slow showing Detailed view, Processes, organised by
    a. highest CPU use
    b. highest memory use
    c. highest disk use

    I seem to recall reading of instances where people have reported a leaky process or driver taking up increasing amounts of RAM; another issue has been related to system and compressed memory. Yours could well be different of course.
      My Computers


  4. Posts : 11
    Windows 10 10.0.10586
    Thread Starter
       #14

    I should have expanded the windows so you could see it better...sorry about that. The Disk column stands out obviously. The 4 screenshots are during a slow period, sorted as you asked; while trying to open Chrome and "my computer files"

    I have also been getting a message at start up. "Unable to connect to windows service" or "unable to connect to Kaspersky portal" just fyi... Hope that helps..Thanks!!

    Unable to navigate and open programs-screenshot-7-.pngUnable to navigate and open programs-screenshot-8-.pngUnable to navigate and open programs-screenshot-9-.pngUnable to navigate and open programs-screenshot-10-.png

    dalchina said:
    Ok, thanks, so Safe Mode seems ok, but there's a problem if you do a clean boot.

    That suggests it's possibly a driver-related problem, assuming your system is clean of viruses etc.
    Make sure you have the minimum of devices connected to your PC.

    However, noting that you say things slow down after a while in clean boot mode, could you post screenshots of your task manager when things are slow showing Detailed view, Processes, organised by
    a. highest CPU use
    b. highest memory use
    c. highest disk use

    I seem to recall reading of instances where people have reported a leaky process or driver taking up increasing amounts of RAM; another issue has been related to system and compressed memory. Yours could well be different of course.
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 35,413
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #15

    Hi, the thing that stands out is disk use, however none of your screenshots is organised by highest disk use.

    So please could you do one more screenshot- just of the task manager, not the whole screen is fine (you can use Windows' snipping tool - just search 'snip' e.g.) but before you take the screenshot, click on the tab 'Disk' to bring the processes using the most disk time to the top of the listing.

    Thanks!
    Like this:
    Unable to navigate and open programs-snap-2016-01-24-15.18.36.jpg

    Also, how much free space do you have on C:?
      My Computers


  6. Posts : 11
    Windows 10 10.0.10586
    Thread Starter
       #16

    Don't laugh...I have 855GB free of 899 on C drive. Machine is under used. Pretty much just a browser. Getting a little excited. I feel you are close to uncovering the problem!

    Unable to navigate and open programs-tenf1.png
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 35,413
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #17

    Hmm, System and compressed memory is a feature introduced in Win 10.. supposedly to optimise RAM use.
    Can you confirm that high disk and CPU use related to that, once it begins, continues - so we know that's the issue?
    I.e. leave it in the unresponsive state for, say, 20 minutes, and recheck the task manager. (No need to post a screenshot unless interesting).

    If I recall correctly, such problems only arose after build 10586

    There are threads and reports of high CPU use associated with it.. there is no one fix, as far as I know so far.

    One approach is to try to determine what's triggering its use, which is significantly technical.

    Here are a few relevant links:
    Solved Is this normal? System and compressed memory process ALWAYS at 20% cpu - Windows 10 Forums
    - poster found a solution
    HELP - System and compressed memory constantly at 35% CPU - Windows 10 Forums
    - left open (no solution)

    This one is particularly interesting- read carefully thru.. I've only read the first page.
    System and Compressed Memory Service High CPU Usage - Microsoft Community

    Here's a (very) brief description:
    In Windows 10, we have added a new concept in the Memory Manager called a compression store, which is an in-memory collection of compressed pages. This means that when Memory Manager feels memory pressure, it will compress unused pages instead of writing them to disk. This reduces the amount of memory used per process, allowing Windows 10 to maintain more applications in physical memory at a time. This also helps provide better responsiveness across Windows 10. The compression store lives in the System process’s working set. Since the system process holds the store in memory, its working set grows larger exactly when memory is being made available for other processes. This is visible in Task Manager and the reason the System process appears to be consuming more memory than previous releases."

    from here:
    W10.1511 - System and compressed memory | High Memory Usage | Windows 10 Forums

    Amongst the above you will find some things you can try.
    Note: not everyone has this problem.. so you might try a process of elimination to see if that helps.. but it could be relatively obscure, especially as you said after a clean boot it only recurs after some hours...
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 11
    Windows 10 10.0.10586
    Thread Starter
       #18

    A few days delayed..I thank you so much for your assistance thus far! I have a few follow up items though.

    1. When left idle for extended periods, the usage in CPU, Memory, and disk fluctuate. But they do spike. It seems its always my AV at the top of this list. In another thread I read about Kaspersky not being installed correctly. I uninstalled it from my machine and reinstalled. No change.
    Unable to navigate and open programs-tenf2.png

    2. The Relevant links you provided... I looked through the "solved" thread. It IS significantly technical, as you eluded too. I don't know that I possess that ability, but will try to work through it further. I did look into the possible of a needed driver and or other updates. I had gone through my manufacturers website "sony" Found only a hard drive update that wasn't up to date. It mentioned to go through windows update for the latest. Nothing available.

    3. If there is currently no fix for this isolated issue..is there any validity to completely reinstalling win 10? And more importantly, considering my needs are very minor needing only a browser basically. Could I go back to win 8.1 with no issues? Could the issue remain?

    4. Lastly. The steps we have taken so far, specifically the clean boot. Do I need to go back and enable items that were disabled? Or is my machine back to original some how? I guess my question is do I have a fully functioning laptop, less the extreme lagging at times? Will I need to replace it? Is the machine destined to be recycled?

    Again, I thank you for your help!!!




    dalchina said:
    Hmm, System and compressed memory is a feature introduced in Win 10.. supposedly to optimise RAM use.
    Can you confirm that high disk and CPU use related to that, once it begins, continues - so we know that's the issue?
    I.e. leave it in the unresponsive state for, say, 20 minutes, and recheck the task manager. (No need to post a screenshot unless interesting).

    If I recall correctly, such problems only arose after build 10586

    There are threads and reports of high CPU use associated with it.. there is no one fix, as far as I know so far.

    One approach is to try to determine what's triggering its use, which is significantly technical.

    Here are a few relevant links:
    Solved Is this normal? System and compressed memory process ALWAYS at 20% cpu - Windows 10 Forums
    - poster found a solution
    HELP - System and compressed memory constantly at 35% CPU - Windows 10 Forums
    - left open (no solution)

    This one is particularly interesting- read carefully thru.. I've only read the first page.
    System and Compressed Memory Service High CPU Usage - Microsoft Community

    Here's a (very) brief description:
    In Windows 10, we have added a new concept in the Memory Manager called a compression store, which is an in-memory collection of compressed pages. This means that when Memory Manager feels memory pressure, it will compress unused pages instead of writing them to disk. This reduces the amount of memory used per process, allowing Windows 10 to maintain more applications in physical memory at a time. This also helps provide better responsiveness across Windows 10. The compression store lives in the System process’s working set. Since the system process holds the store in memory, its working set grows larger exactly when memory is being made available for other processes. This is visible in Task Manager and the reason the System process appears to be consuming more memory than previous releases."

    from here:
    W10.1511 - System and compressed memory | High Memory Usage | Windows 10 Forums

    Amongst the above you will find some things you can try.
    Note: not everyone has this problem.. so you might try a process of elimination to see if that helps.. but it could be relatively obscure, especially as you said after a clean boot it only recurs after some hours...
      My Computer


  9. Posts : 35,413
    Win 10 Pro (21H2) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #19

    Hi, you seem to have both Windows Defender and Kaspersky active- as you'll know, you would expect installing K to disable W. Defender. So there's sthg wrong there. (1st 2 items on your screenshot).

    Note: considering W Def. alone: manually disabling Defender in Win 10 is only effective for a short period, obscurely. There is a way to disable it completely, but installing a 3rd party tool (Kaspersky) should do that.

    You're not the only one to experience this:
    Kaspersky and windows defender - Microsoft Community

    Solve that, and you might be ok.
    Try this:
    How To Disable Windows Defender Permanently In Windows 10

    We know things are ok in Safe Mode, so clean boot adds drivers and your AV. If you deal with your AV problems and get your CPU use down to under 3%, idle, for example, and 0 disk use, that would be good.

    Your PC will remain in clean boot mode until you reverse the settings.
    I'd suggest doing the above, checking CPU, disk use for a while, then posting back results.

    ===============================
    Win 10 vs Win 8 etc.. why move?
    1. Do the universal apps add useful features? In general, not in my opinion.
    2. Can you live without Cortana? Absolutely.
    3. The Win 10 start menu is horrible in my opinion. It fails to express traditional hierarchical start menus properly- a major failure- and adds little but confusion. Classic Shell (freeware) wins (as in Win 8).
    4. Win 10 introduces lots of new issues for some people (not the majority) regarding drivers and hardware compatibility.
    5. The appearance needs a loft of work to make it look acceptable (I'm happy with mine - basically the same changes I made as in Win 8).
    6. It's evident it's immature. (MS occasionally breaks things in updates- for example the Powershell command that used to fix universal apps has been broken since 10586, and there are store update problems now for many - acknowledged by MS)
    7. There are some good apps available from the Store

    So is there any advantage in using Win 10?
    I like the in-place upgrade repair install.
    At each major upgrade (like 10586) you have a stepping stone- you can always return to it with a complete refresh of Windows. The procedure is a big improvement on previous 'over the top' repair installs in earlier versions.

    My Win 10 has been stable for a long time, looks ok; I ignore the universal apps (mostly) and the Win 10 start menu.

    I moved to Win 10 'cos this 6 year-old laptop is creaking- some overheating problems (needs fan area cleaning- major disassembly) - its custom replacement comes with Win 10 64bits. So I've prepared to transfer my progs using a tool from Win 10 to Win 10 by upgrading to Win 10 64bits from Win 8 Pro, 32 bits.
    Last edited by dalchina; 29 Jan 2016 at 03:34.
      My Computers


 

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