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  1.    03 Nov 2015 #1
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Maryland
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 x64 Home

    Windows 10 Recurring Crash/Freeze - nVidia?


    I'm hoping someone can help me with a recurring Windows 10 crash.

    First of all, I upgraded from Win 7 Pro to Win 10 Pro. Soon after, I began to experience crashes at apparently random times. in this case, "crash" always means display goes dark, monitor powers down, computer stays on, and everything is totally locked. The only way to recover is by powering down computer and re-starting. I soon suspected nVidia driver as other reported similar problems. I have updated to the latest nVidia driver (for my GTX 660) but have tried various older ones as well. I have tried to update other drivers as well. When installing new nVidia drivers, I have followed nVidia's suggestion and first used the Display Driver Uninstall utility and then done a clean install of the new driver.

    When I uninstall nVidia driver and run on simple Microsoft display driver, the problem vanishes (but I really can't run anything that requires a faster display). The program "Who Crashed" shows no mini dumps after these crashes. The Reliability monitor shows nothing but "Windows stopped unexpectedly."

    From Event Manager, the crital error message only reports "The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down. The error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly." Before the crash, the same log reports MANY warning messages saying "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered."

    I have attached all logs from DM Log Collector. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Tom Whedbee

    Dell XPS720 with Core 2 Quad Q9450 8GB RAM
    Windows 10 Pro x64
    nVidia GeForce GTX 660
    SoundBlaster 5 RX
    Windows 10 Recurring Crash/Freeze - nVidia? Attached Files
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    04 Nov 2015 #2
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Tokyo
    Posts : 42
    W10 Home 64Bit

    Possibly helpful. I hope.


    Ah, the stupid MS & NV GPU drivers for windows 10. Just yesterday windows 10 tried to download some kind of old 354.xx driver that isn't even on the NV site. It's a mess and a lot of people have had trouble with this. I did too until I did the following which may help you if you are doing something different:

    So, I always clean install, but I don't use the remove driver utility. I only ever install drivers that have been directly downloaded from the NV site. (The very latest, 358.xx G-Sync is broken, and ackowledged by NV so if you use G-Sync stick to 355.98. Had no problems with that for over a month. I mean not at all.

    Next may be more helpful. I never ever instal that bloatware know as NV Experience or something, and would never upgrade drivers using that program. (I heard you can, options limited, simple upgrade - bad idea.) Finally I never install 3D, sound whatever. I only ever install the driver itself (clean install) and Pysics X. Thats it. I have had several - more than 7 NV cards over the years and by doing this I've never had problems except with high OCs (of course) and for a short time when W10 came out. I don't know if that's any use to you, twhedbee, but try it. Driver from NV - never windows. Clean install. Minimum components, sensible NV CP settings.

    Next idea may be the best in your situation (a possible solution for nvldddmkm issues.)
    Also it's possible to delay the timeout from 2 seconds to more. (Often nvldddmkm errors occour because 2 secs it not enough. MS even provided a hot fix for that ages ago MicrosoftFixit50848. It works. Can be done manually through the registry too. That's all I can think of. Good luck and keep us updated!! I know how annoying things like this can be, and they shouldn't happen.
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  3.    04 Nov 2015 #3
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Maryland
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 x64 Home
    Thread Starter

    Thanks for the detailed reply, AndyG. Yes, I have only been installing drivers from the nVidia site. I also don't install the other stuff, including nVidia Control Panel and PhysX. I would like to have those two -- you think they're OK to install. I've also disable the nVidia Display Device service. Thoughts on that one?

    I was just reading about changing the timeout to more than 2 sec. I'm going to try that, too, and will report back. Again, thanks for your input.

    Tom
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    04 Nov 2015 #4
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Tokyo
    Posts : 42
    W10 Home 64Bit

    NV Display service and CP part of the driver. Service - Auto-on Always


    Hi Tom, I'm no expert but I am sure that the "Nvdia Display Driver Service" (in services of course) should be running. Automatic setting. I've never disabled that, but I'm 99% sure it won't work at all, or revert to windows basic display driver if you disable it.
    I think you had better put it to automatic and restart - to make sure it starts as it should. About NV control panel. I have always had that as it's part of, or the interface if you like for the driver itself. It's nothing like the Nvdia experience program. To be honest, I didn't even know that there was a choice not to install it. Probably because the service is off it's not there. But really, it should be. It's part of the driver in a sense; PhysX is controlled by the CP too. Best to leave it on Auto. (PhysX)

    So, quick summary. If you install (from Nvdia site) the driver package and PhysX (two boxes checked) that's pretty much the bare minimum for it to work and the best IMO. The driver installation includes or is part of the control panel. I have always had it, right click on desktop to open. I suppose PhysX could be left unchecked, but as as far as I know that's never caused anyone problems. Also some games need it to run properly.

    It's the other stuff like NVexperience (I really detest that bloatware) and sound drivers and 3D drivers that are totally optional. It you don't have a 3D display - you know with special glasses etc those drivers do nothing and could possibly interfere with the GPU driver itself (which includes the control panel.) Without the CP you can't set things such as multidisplay performance mode, or, single display performance mode (I use that one) and a few others. The more I type the more sure I am that the CP is in fact needed to control the basic functions, but the defaults are "safe," so many people who have no computer knowledge except email and browsing problably don't even know it exists. But, it's there. Or should be. The Service installs with the driver, intergrated into windows and is necessary - I'm sure about that. (well 99%)

    If I were you, first step would be clean install of the NV driver with only the driver box and PhyX box ticked. That will include the control panel automatically. Make sure the service is running too, all the time on automatic. In CP universal settings choose appropriate display setup. I heard before that the setting "single dislplay compatability mode," is the safest, but I've never tried it. "Single display performance mode" should be fine. Set PyX to auto (that's default). Restart to make sure the service automatically comes on, and that's it - or that's how it should work.

    After doing the basics above, I recommend first trouble shooting or action is to change the timeout. That is a common problem and most likely. If still having problems after that, post again, someone else may help better than my rambling "essay"

    Oh, run the windows "Hardware and devices," and the "maintenance" trouble shooters too. Included in action center. Only takes a minute or so, and it does actually solve problems sometimes. All versions of windows have that.

    You probably already know that anyway. Another thing, don't take it the wrong way, but it has happened before. Never confuse the NV experience software program with the control panel or driver service. The service and CP are basic components of the GPU driver. The NV experience is rubbish and not needed IMHO. Hopefully doing the above slowly, and the last step is to change the timeout there is a good chance it will work. Restart often. Without actually sitting at your desktop anything beyond that is going to be difficult for me to convey by posting. But, I want to help and will if I can. Really, I know how annoying, and frustrating this kind of thing is.

    So do all of that, slowly, and let us know what happened. Sorry if you already knew most of that, but many don't. I'll repeat, the service must be running or the driver cannot work at all. Good luck buddy!!
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  5.    05 Nov 2015 #5
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Maryland
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 x64 Home
    Thread Starter

    AndyG, thanks for the time and effort to post such a helpful reply. I was doing some of the things you have suggested and have added those suggestions I wasn't. It's early, but I haven't had a crash since all was in place. I will report back!

    Best regards,

    Tom
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    08 Nov 2015 #6
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Tokyo
    Posts : 42
    W10 Home 64Bit

    Quote Originally Posted by twhedbee View Post
    AndyG, thanks for the time and effort to post such a helpful reply. I was doing some of the things you have suggested and have added those suggestions I wasn't. It's early, but I haven't had a crash since all was in place. I will report back!

    Best regards,

    Tom
    Hi Tom, I don't want to speak to soon, but looks like you have probably got this one solved!! I hope so. Cheers!!
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  7.    09 Nov 2015 #7
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Maryland
    Posts : 15
    Windows 10 x64 Home
    Thread Starter

    I had hoped so too, Andy. I was away for the weekend, but got the same crash almost immediately when I booted up Monday morning. Frustrating!! I'll keep trying things...
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    10 Nov 2015 #8
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Tokyo
    Posts : 42
    W10 Home 64Bit

    Quote Originally Posted by twhedbee View Post
    I had hoped so too, Andy. I was away for the weekend, but got the same crash almost immediately when I booted up Monday morning. Frustrating!! I'll keep trying things...
    Ah, sorry to hear that, Tom. I assume the hardware is fine? Well, as you said, keep trying. Sometimes the solution is so simple we (me included) overlook it, wasting hours on advanced trouble shooting only to find one setting is wrong or something.
    Thing is, with windows 10 I'm not sure that still holds true. I had a few problems with windows 10, solved now, but the solutions weren't simple. (It wasn't connected to GPU/Display so not relevant to your issue.

    All I can say is good luck, man! I'm out of ideas. It'll be great if you can fix it. Somehow I reckon you will. Keep us updated if anything new comes to light, but hopefully you will have it up and running soon!
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  9.    14 Nov 2015 #9
    Join Date : Aug 2015
    The Void
    Posts : 49
    Windows 10

    Don't feel alone with this problem AMD Radeon Display Drivers for Windows 10
    is also very broken. Windows 10 doesn't seem to work with Nvidia or AMD Radeon (lately)
    And these crash reports are only getting more and more reported as the days go by.
    Soon, everyone will be reporting this problem or something very identical to this.
    And it's getting really, really, really, really, really . . . Annoying!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    14 Nov 2015 #10
    Join Date : Oct 2015
    Tokyo
    Posts : 42
    W10 Home 64Bit

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeJR View Post
    Don't feel alone with this problem AMD Radeon Display Drivers for Windows 10
    is also very broken. Windows 10 doesn't seem to work with Nvidia or AMD Radeon (lately)
    And these crash reports are only getting more and more reported as the days go by.
    Soon, everyone will be reporting this problem or something very identical to this.
    And it's getting really, really, really, really, really . . . Annoying!
    Thanks for the info, LukeJR. I didn't realize there were issues with AMD GPUs as well, although I had heard a few complaints.

    It's crazy! AMD + Nvidia GPUs = Pretty much all GPUs! I always check the NV site for upgraded drivers and am sure to download them fast. That's because about 2 days later MS will push their "adapted," Drivers (they even change the driver version/number which is no where to be found on the main NV site). It's a ridiculous forced driver update which includes 3D drivers too. Why MS! Most people don't need the 3D drivers! Let alone your special (read: screwed up) vs of the drivers. I really can't think of any sane reason to force driver updates. With NV it's every month.

    Forced security updates - well that's debatable and for private users It might actually be good. (I guess it slows down the spread of some types of nasty malware?) But, drivers, why!?!

    The alternative is to use the wushowhide.diagcab which will block any windows 10 updates you wish. It's very useful to say the least, and it's made and distributed by MS! Why on earth its not intergrated into windows is anyones guess. MS don't publize this tool at all so I think a lot of people don't know about it. You guys probably know, but if not google that name and you will quickly find it and can download the small but almost essential untility. Download from MS.

    I fully agree with you, it's really very annoying! And, it just doesn't make sense? It must make something easier for MS or they wouldn't do it, but it makes things for many dedicated GPU owners very annoying indeed.

    Despite all their recent nice comments I think that really MS doesn't give a flying S%^% about customers, and the fact W10 is free for most seems to give them a sense of entitelment to ignore legit customer concerns. A most unpleasant company it's become.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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