Windows 10 still defrags ssd's instead of optimizing!

  1. SDMF74's Avatar
    Posts : 26
    10 Pro
       #1

    Windows 10 still defrags ssd's instead of optimizing!


    When I run automatic maintenance from the security & maintenance screen windows 10 defragments my samsung 960 pro M.2 c: drive instead of optimizing it. I thought windows 10 was smart enough to not defragment ssd's under any circumstance? If I have the optimize drives window open while running maintenance manually I can clearly see my ssd going through the 3 passes of defrag & it says the % already defragged!

    windows 10 1909 build 18363.836

    Windows 10 still defrags ssd's instead of optimizing!-manual-maintenence-defrags-ssd-slowly-instead-optimizing-.jpg
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  2. Try3's Avatar
    Posts : 4,524
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 1909 Build 18363.900
       #2

    Windows does defrag SSDs.

    If you have set the SSD to be 'optimised' weekly by the Defragmenter then it actually trims & defrags monthly.

    This info is in defrag - Microsoft Docs under the sub-heading 'Scheduled task'
    - SSD defrag is also discussed in The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD - Scott Hanselman
    -The situation is further complicated by the fact that, since Windows Vista & 7, Windows defragmentation has not bothered moving around blocks of 64MB or greater. So your files can remain fragmented to that extent. MS experimented and decided that its old practice of fully defragmenting files gained no benefit once lumps of 64MB were consolidated. Disk Defragmentation – Background and Engineering the Windows 7 Improvements - Microsoft Docs
    - You might also enjoy reading Trim and SSD Performance - Why is it Important - Crucial
    - If you ever need to check that Trim is enabled, use Enable or Disable TRIM Support for Solid State Drives - TenForumsTutorials

    The defrag & trim records are kept in Event viewer, Application log, Sources - Defrag, Defrag-Core and, as lxo7 post in TenForums illustrates, they can be accessed through PowerShell as well.
    - I have never managed to catch a record of anything other than trimming taking place but others have seen SSD defrag happening [shown in that lxo7 post]

    Denis
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  3. SDMF74's Avatar
    Posts : 26
    10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #3

    Thanks for the feedback, I just read the links you provided some of which I had already seen albeit long ago. Of course Im still somewhat confused but I assume it is ok to just let windows do its thing, not much of a choice anyway. I guess I just assumed that windows was ONLY optimizing/trimming my ssd's but I was wrong. Only noticed it when I manually ran a maintenance on my pc and noticed windows 10 was doing a defrag with full passes.

    Quick question should I perform a secure erase on my samsung M.2 when reinstalling windows from scratch? I usually reinstall windows 10 pro once every year or two.
    Your probably gonna ask if Im having any slowdowns on the mentioned drive & the answer would be no, not as of yet but the question still stands. If not is a proper secure erase ever advised other than just before selling an ssd?

    And if not what method of wiping or cleaning the drive would you recommend when reinstalling windows?
    Last edited by SDMF74; 3 Weeks Ago at 18:20.
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  4. Try3's Avatar
    Posts : 4,524
    Windows 10 Home x64 Version 1909 Build 18363.900
       #4

    SDMF74 said:
    Thanks for the feedback, I just read the links you provided some of which I had already seen albeit long ago. Of course Im still somewhat confused but I assume it is ok to just let windows do its thing, not much of a choice anyway. I guess I just assumed that windows was ONLY optimizing/trimming my ssd's but I was wrong. Only noticed it when I manually ran a maintenance on my pc and noticed windows 10 was doing a defrag with full passes.

    Quick question should I perform a secure erase on my samsung M.2 when reinstalling windows from scratch? I usually reinstall windows 10 pro once every year or two.
    Your probably gonna ask if Im having any slowdowns on the mentioned drive & the answer would be no, not as of yet but the question still stands. If not is a proper secure erase ever advised other than just before selling an ssd?

    And if not what method of wiping or cleaning the drive would you recommend when reinstalling windows?
    I don't see any benefit to doing a secure erase before reinstalling. I do not see any benefit to such frequent reinstalling, I was not going to ask about slowdowns. I know of no reason to securely erase other than before disposing of a disk. Since Windows repartitions a disk as part of reinstallation, there is no need to wipe or clean anything.
    Clean Install - TenForumsTutorials

    Denis
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  5. Compumind's Avatar
    Posts : 2,510
    Windows 10 Pro x64, Various Linux Builds, Networking, Storage, Cybersecurity Specialty.
       #5
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  6. SDMF74's Avatar
    Posts : 26
    10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #6

    Try3 said:
    I don't see any benefit to doing a secure erase before reinstalling. I do not see any benefit to such frequent reinstalling, I was not going to ask about slowdowns. I know of no reason to securely erase other than before disposing of a disk. Since Windows repartitions a disk as part of reinstallation, there is no need to wipe or clean anything.
    Clean Install - TenForumsTutorials
    Denis
    I appreciate the info but have you used windows before? You may be absolutely correct about the SE but as far as the clean installs.
    I cant tell you the amount of times that my windows has become corrupt because of updates & microsoft issues. Sure sometimes an unavoidable virus causes issues that prompt a clean install but Im getting ready to do one right this minute because Im having multiple issues. (Last clean install was 2nd qtr. in 2019)

    1. When my pc wakes from hybrid sleep EVERY time my KB cursor skates across the screen (open window) as if Im holding down the spacebar & it seems to have occured after a windows update a few weeks ago. Ive went through the most exhaustive steps of troubleshooting Ive ever done! to no avail (literally tried like 100 different things). My KB is not defective so who knows. Oh and for some very strange reason it ONLY happens when my cpu is set to adaptive rather than manual. I thought unstable overclock but nope I reset to optimized defaults & cleared cmos etc. but it still occurs.

    2. Got another issue with my z270 chipset reporting that no drivers are loaded for this device under a couple chipset headings in device manager ( PMC-A2A1 & SMBUS-A2A3) & the PMC-A2A1 is reporting that "this device isnt using any resources because it has a problem"Tried fixing that but microsoft keeps reinstalling an older version (v10.1.1.38 I believe) over the newer ones I download from Asus & Intel.
    I found an interesting article from Intel that seems to describe this issue to a tee (even names the exact version) but claims it doesnt occur in windows 10.
    Intel(R) Chipset Device Software Update Through Microsoft Windows*...

    Thats the 2 most frustrating windows issues Ive been dealing with for the past couple weeks & yeah those threads went absolutley nowhere. Could they be related? Maybe?
    So Im hoping a clean install will resolve everything, I will know soon enough but if anything in that rant turns an eyebrow please advise???
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  7. Posts : 1,818
    W10 pro x64 Skip Ahead + Edge Dev
       #7

    Try3 said:
    Windows does defrag SSDs.

    If you have set the SSD to be 'optimised' weekly by the Defragmenter then it actually trims & defrags monthly.

    This info is in defrag - Microsoft Docs under the sub-heading 'Scheduled task'
    - SSD defrag is also discussed in The real and complete story - Does Windows defragment your SSD - Scott Hanselman
    -The situation is further complicated by the fact that, since Windows Vista & 7, Windows defragmentation has not bothered moving around blocks of 64MB or greater. So your files can remain fragmented to that extent. MS experimented and decided that its old practice of fully defragmenting files gained no benefit once lumps of 64MB were consolidated. Disk Defragmentation Background and Engineering the Windows 7 Improvements - Microsoft Docs
    - You might also enjoy reading Trim and SSD Performance - Why is it Important - Crucial
    - If you ever need to check that Trim is enabled, use Enable or Disable TRIM Support for Solid State Drives - TenForumsTutorials

    The defrag & trim records are kept in Event viewer, Application log, Sources - Defrag, Defrag-Core and, as lxo7 post in TenForums illustrates, they can be accessed through PowerShell as well.
    - I have never managed to catch a record of anything other than trimming taking place but others have seen SSD defrag happening [shown in that lxo7 post]

    Denis
    Thanks for the info, I was nearly asking similar questions to this myself.

    I use an SSD and manually ran the optimise routine a week or back when upgrading to 2004. I noticed the other day the screen had gone back to 'needs optimising... never run' when it had been.

    Yesterdays differential backup was MASSIVE, up from around 1.5Gb to over 12Gb. I figured the routine had run but the GUI still says no and that optimisation is needed.

    So I run the command you linked to by IX07 and see this which also shows it did run under my manual command back on the 29th as well:

    Edit... the manually run instance of the Optimise routine shows only 'retrim' performed. There is no mention of Defragmenting in the list.

    Code:
    Windows PowerShell
    Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
    
    Try the new cross-platform PowerShell https://aka.ms/pscore6
    
    PS C:\WINDOWS\system32> Get-EventLog -LogName Application -Source "microsoft-windows-defrag" | sort timegenerated -desc | fl timegenerated, message
    
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:59:07
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on Data (D:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:59:07
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed defragmentation on Data (D:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:59:06
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on (C:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:59:06
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed defragmentation on (C:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:44
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed defragmentation on AOMEI (Y:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:44
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on AOMEI (Y:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:44
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed defragmentation on Recovery (Z:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:44
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on Recovery (Z:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:41
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on System Reserved
    
    TimeGenerated : 05/06/2020 07:56:41
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed defragmentation on System Reserved
    
    TimeGenerated : 29/05/2020 12:10:50
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on System Reserved
    
    TimeGenerated : 29/05/2020 12:10:48
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on Recovery (Z:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 29/05/2020 12:10:46
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on AOMEI (Y:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 29/05/2020 12:10:43
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on Data (D:)
    
    TimeGenerated : 29/05/2020 12:10:41
    Message       : The storage optimiser successfully completed re-trim on (C:)
    
    
    
    PS C:\WINDOWS\system32>
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  8. swarfega's Avatar
    Posts : 6,498
    Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
       #8

    There's quite a long old thread you might like to peruse here:
    Why is Windows defragging my SSD?
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  9. Posts : 1,818
    W10 pro x64 Skip Ahead + Edge Dev
       #9

    Thanks
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