Should "Defragment and Optimize Drives" be running for an SSD?

I have read conflicting reports for the last five years about optimization, defragmentation, and TRIM. Some reports suggest that Windows is smart enough to know what to do with the SSD and some reports suggest that the SSD's architecture has outrun Windows 10 implementation tactics.

A small example of this would be the fact that I have the most current Crucial SSD firmware to date for my particular drive, and yet Windows 10 still chooses to see it as a HDD :




More alarming, is the fact that it fragments at a rate of 3% an hour on average even with TRIM enabled when the scheduled optimization is turned off for all drives.


I have about had it with the conflicting reports that Windows 10 knows what it is doing with my SSD when it can't even display correctly in an optimization GUI. My SSD is a permanent fixture within my enclosure and I do not swap it around from computer to computer via a cable.


Any suggestions or proof that TRIM is doing its job when Windows 10 is too inept to even have my drive listed correctly in an optimization GUI? I mean for the love of whatever, it has the audacity to list that the drive is fragmented; but unfortunately, it cannot be run on a regular schedule because it will eventually degrade the SSD according to the manufacturers of SSD's.


So in retrospect and looking forward, I would like to come across an article that addresses specifically how an SSD should be treated when a OS refuses to see the drive for what it really is.


I remember the days when you were able to lie to the computer when hooking an incompatible piece of equipment to it, and it would work because you had the option to choose a set of parameters that the computer didn't know to flag as unusable.

Now, it is the complete opposite; I have an OS lying to me about what type of drive I have installed for who knows what reason. In other words, I miss being in control of something I own because someone in a cubicle somewhere half-way around the world feels it is important for the end user to not be in control of their equipment.

EyeInTheSky said:

I have read conflicting reports for the last five years about optimization, defragmentation, and TRIM. Some reports suggest that Windows is smart enough to know what to do with the SSD and some reports suggest that the SSD's architecture has outrun Windows 10 implementation tactics.

A small example of this would be the fact that I have the most current Crucial SSD firmware to date for my particular drive, and yet Windows 10 still chooses to see it as a HDD :




More alarming, is the fact that it fragments at a rate of 3% an hour on average even with TRIM enabled when the scheduled optimization is turned off for all drives.


I have about had it with the conflicting reports that Windows 10 knows what it is doing with my SSD when it can't even display correctly in an optimization GUI. My SSD is a permanent fixture within my enclosure and I do not swap it around from computer to computer via a cable.


Any suggestions or proof that TRIM is doing its job when Windows 10 is too inept to even have my drive listed correctly in an optimization GUI? I mean for the love of whatever, it has the audacity to list that the drive is fragmented; but unfortunately, it cannot be run on a regular schedule because it will eventually degrade the SSD according to the manufacturers of SSD's.


So in retrospect and looking forward, I would like to come across an article that addresses specifically how an SSD should be treated when a OS refuses to see the drive for what it really is.


I remember the days when you were able to lie to the computer when hooking an incompatible piece of equipment to it, and it would work because you had the option to choose a set of parameters that the computer didn't know to flag as unusable.

Now, it is the complete opposite; I have an OS lying to me about what type of drive I have installed for who knows what reason. In other words, I miss being in control of something I own because someone in a cubicle somewhere half-way around the world feels it is important for the end user to not be in control of their equipment.

Is SATA port in AHCI mode, RAID mode maybe ? I didn't get any fragmentation even on HDDs.

NavyLCDR said:

Mine is in an OICENT enclosure. It's tool less with a cover that is removed easily. It is a SANDISK SSD. SANDISK dashboard will not recognize the drive connected via the USB enclosure either, so I think it is the enclosure that is blocking things. I have a drive slide in bay in the front of my desktop computer, I plan on just removing the drive out of the enclosure once a month or so, popping it into the desktop computer bay and running TRIM on it. Since the drive is used in a USB enclosure anyway, I'm not too worried about it running at optimum speed always...but I certainly don't want Windows to do the traditional hard drive defrag on it. So I guess turn off optimization in settings for this drive only.

f14tomcat said:

Thanks. I'll have to give it a good under-the-covers inspection first time I fire it up in the Blac-X. I'll try to remember to post back how much smoke there is.....

@NavyLCDR

I remembered to report back....

Didn't grab a pic, but the 860 EVO in the Blac-x shows as HDD in Defrag & Optimize, but does a Trimming op on it when clicked to optimize. So here I think the system sees the enclosure as USB 3.0 and HDD, but SSD controller reports back correctly and the trim is done. All clear as mud.....

CountMike said:

Is SATA port in AHCI mode, RAID mode maybe ? I didn't get any fragmentation even on HDDs.

So glad you asked. Ever since I upgraded to Windows 10, way back when it was first offered, (or excuse me, forced upon some of us) I lost the ability to select AHCI mode in my BIOS setup utility:




It just has SATA Controller - ENABLE/DISABLE

That is it, I have no other options in BIOS to set the SATA port.

I'm running in LEGACY Mode as it is the only option after accepting the upgrade to WINDOWS 10.

Mooly said:

I wonder if the drive showing as an HDD rather than an SSD is running on an operating system that was cloned or moved from HDD to SSD rather than clean installed.

Glad you mentioned this as well; as this thought did cross my mind as well. I have clean installed on this SSD and it is not a cloned copy from an HDD.

EyeInTheSky said:

So glad you asked. Ever since I upgraded to Windows 10, way back when it was first offered, (or excuse me, forced upon some of us) I lost the ability to select AHCI mode in my BIOS setup utility:




It just has SATA Controller - ENABLE/DISABLE

That is it, I have no other options in BIOS to set the SATA port.

I'm running in LEGACY Mode as it is the only option after accepting the upgrade to WINDOWS 10.




Glad you mentioned this as well; as this thought did cross my mind as well. I have clean installed on this SSD and it is not a cloned copy from an HDD.

Sorry but OS, any OS can't make changes like that in BIOS any BIOS. BIOS is Firmware and it and it's options are hard coded into it. Without AHCI, trim doesn't work and OS has no other way to know if trim should be enabled and used or even detect that it's SSD instead of SSD. I'd suggest that you check if there's some new BIOS version at HP site.

To check for TRim option you can open the Admin Command prompt and type:
fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

DisableDeleteNotify = 0 : TRIM is already enabled and working in Windows
DisableDeleteNotify = 1 : TRIM is not enabled

To force Trim
fsutil behavior set DisableDeleteNotify 0

If BIOS doesn't support AHCI mode, you are SOL for Trim and GC (Garbage Collection) and all the goodies included in drive's firmware. That tend to slow down already slower operation SATA2 (comparing to SATA3) brings.
Making full backup and restoring it every couple - 3 month can restore performance until all memory cells get used again. Since Windows can't recognize it as SSD, automatic de-fragmentation for it or all disks should be disabled.

CountMike said:

Sorry but OS, any OS can't make changes like that in BIOS any BIOS. BIOS is Firmware and it and it's options are hard coded into it. Without AHCI, trim doesn't work and OS has no other way to know if trim should be enabled and used or even detect that it's SSD instead of SSD. I'd suggest that you check if there's some new BIOS version at HP site.

I think you are misunderstanding that the Windows 10 upgrade replaced my out of date BIOS that is no longer being updated or supported by HP. I can force TRIM all I want, but it sounds like it doesn't matter in my particular case.

eLPuSHeR said:

Hello.

Have you tried executing the command?: winsat formal -restart clean

What exactly does that do?