Windows 10: 2017 Hardware Thread

  1.    23 Sep 2017 #3111

    slicendice said: View Post
    I soo want an AMD Radeon Vega Frontier 16GB with built in water cooling. Makes me drool a lot! But price is ridiculous, ~1800€ here in Finland. But then again, it would serve it's purpose in the long run. Over twice as fast in 3D rendering compared to NVidia Titan XP.
    I looked at one of those being since as both a gamer and photographer I wouldn't mind having to best of both worlds where you have a gaming GPU, but also a professional graphics card for image editing as well. In that vein, the price wouldn't be so bad. Problem is I'm not sure what the card is capable of because AMD hasn't exactly been clear who the card is aimed at, and what exactly will its capabilities be. For example, will it support 10-bit per pixel like it's professional grade cards or will is stick to only 10-bit per channel like it's consumer cards.

    For graphic artists & photographers, 10-bit per pixel allows for wider color gamut, and it supported in Photoshop, and wide gamut monitors. (in keeping things simple). This is why most graphic professionals go for the professional grade graphic cards like the AMD's FirePro cards or NVidia Quadro cards. On the flip side, these aren't high performance gaming cards. Add that in order to get something close to gaming performance like say an NVidia 1070, you'd have to get near the high-end scale of these professional cards, which can run close to a thousand bucks.

    With AMD's Frontier, if they made a card that captured both worlds, I'd pay that kind of money for it, but thus far, the reviews aren't all the encouraging for the asking price. There's also the issue of where the drivers are going with this particular card.

    Oh, I should add, I'm not interested in the water cooled version, just give me air and call it a day. That's me.
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  2. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 3,545
    Windows 10 Pro x64 v1809 Build 17763.104 (Branch: RS5 Release Preview)
       23 Sep 2017 #3112

    @sygnus21

    Based on what drivers AMD want you to download and what features the drivers has, this is meant mainly for professional use, but you can also switch to gaming mode in the drivers, for optimized gaming performance. They also have different (stripped down) drivers for HPC (High Performance Computing) use on Linux machines.

    I believe this card is intended to capture all audience. What comes to 10-bits per px or channel, I have no idea yet. Need to study this further.
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  3.    23 Sep 2017 #3113

    That's not what I'm talking about. There was talk of specialized drivers for this card in particular. Separate from the normal drivers for the other Vega RX series cards. Don't remember where I saw that, but if I find it, I'll post it later.

    slicendice said: View Post
    What comes to 10-bits per px or channel, I have no idea yet. Need to study this further.
    Here's some of my posts on the subject in the Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com) PC forum. I'm ADMint there...

    Last edited by sygnus21; 23 Sep 2017 at 13:40.
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  4. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 3,545
    Windows 10 Pro x64 v1809 Build 17763.104 (Branch: RS5 Release Preview)
       24 Sep 2017 #3114

    That 10bpc/bpp talk is very confusing. Makes absolutely NO sense to me at all. I also looked at many other articles about this, and half talk is the opposite of how I understand it while the other half makes sense.

    I see no reason why the Vega Frontier would not support processing and pushing out 30-48-bit color depth.


    Here is something I have found on a few sites regarding colors for the Vega Frontier:
    10-Bit Color

    Native support for 10-bits per color channel assists color-critical tasks such as photo editing and video color-correction by providing a larger visible gamut. 10-bit images require a monitor that supports a 10-bit input.
    pro.radeon.com said:
    10-bit Color

    Native support for 10-bits per color channel for color-critical tasks. Driving an effective 30-bits per pixel, the Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition card is great for any workload requiring that level of detail and color precision.
    Simply put, this is a professional card, not an enthusiast nor gaming card. As far as I can tell it has ALL the features a professional would ever need when it comes to creating graphics (2D and 3D) with stunning quality and performance.


    Here are the Drivers and further info about this card: pro.radeon.com
    Last edited by slicendice; 24 Sep 2017 at 03:57.
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  5. essenbe's Avatar
    Posts : 11,355
    Windows 10 Pro and Windows 10 Pro Insider
       24 Sep 2017 #3115

    slicendice said: View Post
    Simply put, this is a professional card, not an enthusiast nor gaming card. As far as I can tell it has ALL the features a professional would ever need when it comes to creating graphics (2D and 3D) with stunning quality and performance.
    I think when this conversation started, what Drew wanted was a card that could do both Professional grade graphics as well as gaming. I think you just said it wasn't both. I think AMD has been unclear where it is positioning the card. Do we compare it to a Titan XP or a Quadro? Can it do rendering as well as a Quadro and game as well as a Titan? I certainly don't know, and I haven't heard of AMD saying either.
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  6. Cliff S's Avatar
    Posts : 21,708
    Win10 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Win10 Pro Insider Fast Ring, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
       24 Sep 2017 #3116

    I'm not sure if I'm following correctly, but: Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition

    To playtest and optimize the gaming experience, the exclusive ability of the Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition to switch from Radeon™ Pro Settings to Radeon™ Settings and back with a couple of clicks enables rapid switching between software features for faster iteration during development workflows.
    When in “Gaming Mode” the full suite of gaming features of Radeon™ Software are made available, including Radeon™ Chill 5 and Radeon™ WattMan 6.
    Game developers can also use the wealth of no-cost open development tools and software found on GPUOpen.com to optimize their next-generation gaming experiences for the pinnacle of AMD graphics technology.
    DRIVER DOWNLOAD

    Unlock the full potential of the Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition with Radeon™ Pro Software

    The Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition is designed to empower Pioneers. Those who are not afraid to lead. To properly enable you, we are providing more driver options than ever before. You can choose between compute specific drivers for ROCm, and graphics drivers that allow you to both create using Radeon™ Pro workstation capabilities and game.



    • I Am Focused on Compute Workloads
      Get your ROCm driver here.
    • I Am Focused on Workstation Workloads
      If you are a workstation user on a Windows® platform, get your driver here.
      If you are a workstation user on a Linux® platform, get your driver here.
    • I Am Focused on Game Development Workloads
      Radeon™ Vega Frontier Edition introduces “Gaming Mode”. This allows you to switch from Radeon™ Pro Settings to Radeon™ Settings where you can access gaming features for playtesting and performance optimization.
      If you are focused on game development on a Windows® platform, get your driver here and switch to “Gaming Mode.”
    • I Just Want to Game
      If you want to game on a Windows® platform, get your driver here and switch to “Gaming Mode.”


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  7. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 3,545
    Windows 10 Pro x64 v1809 Build 17763.104 (Branch: RS5 Release Preview)
       24 Sep 2017 #3117

    Yes, that is what they support, but gaming performance is 30-40% worse than on best gaming only GPUs. Thought his card supports gaming, I would rather pay half or a quarter of the price for a GPU that is intended for gaming only, if I would be such consumer.

    I am not sure however how comprehensive the gaming test, we can find all over the web, really are.
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  8. essenbe's Avatar
    Posts : 11,355
    Windows 10 Pro and Windows 10 Pro Insider
       24 Sep 2017 #3118

    AMD is trying to play 'both ends against the middle'. They are not saying which it is, but says it is capable of both. As I recall, Nvidia tried something real similar with the Titan X or X-p. Gamers were buying the heck out of them, but they were saying it wasn't really a Gaming card. It was more for professional work. That didn't last very long. Soon they were releasing Game drivers and the 'cat was out of the bag.'
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  9. slicendice's Avatar
    Posts : 3,545
    Windows 10 Pro x64 v1809 Build 17763.104 (Branch: RS5 Release Preview)
       24 Sep 2017 #3119

    All talk from AMD suggest this is intended for the professionals in the graphics, 3D content creation and high performance computing business. There is minimal to no talk regarding gaming, except for the driver supporting gaming mode, which most likely only degrades non-needed color channel processing quality and some other minor behavioral tweaks for better performance.

    Since AMD has released specialized Pro drivers for this, that also suggests it's intended to be used as a professional card.

    I would personally not pay 1800€ for a gaming card when I can get 40% better performance with less power consumption for less than half the price, using a different card.
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  10.    24 Sep 2017 #3120

    essenbe said: View Post
    I think when this conversation started, what Drew wanted was a card that could do both Professional grade graphics as well as gaming. I think you just said it wasn't both. I think AMD has been unclear where it is positioning the card. Do we compare it to a Titan XP or a Quadro? Can it do rendering as well as a Quadro and game as well as a Titan? I certainly don't know, and I haven't heard of AMD saying either.
    Thank you Steve, that's exactly it.

    @slicendice, you can't argue with a person if you don't understand the issue. And by your own admission you don't understand the difference between 10 bpp vs. 10 bpc so arguing is futile here.

    Peace
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