New Desktop Build for 2023 - CPU Choice?

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  1. Posts : 7,922
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #41

    itsme1 said:
    And air-cooled cpu cooling melt like snow



    It's exactly that. What you did you will need to do with the new motherboard to get everything to default cpu operation. That's what I will do.
    Update - I had a look inside the current PC. Rotating the Noctua DH-14 fan 90 degrees would fit but the intake fan would then be right against the GPU card with no clear air route. I've decided to return the Asus ROG Strix card which would need to run in this configuration. The ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI I mentioned now seems the best alternative to run the Noctua fan in the standard configuration plus it's cheaper especially with the 35 rebate on offer from Asus this month. I noticed most of the MSI Z790 cards are compatible with my Noctua fan in the standard configuration. However, the MSI UK motherboard warranty is poor being only 1 year.

    I want to connect a USB C header on my new Asus motherboard to an existing front panel having 2 USB 3,0 sockets. Is there an adapter to convert from the Type C socket on the motherboard to the USB 3.0 lead from the front panel?
    Last edited by Steve C; 13 Apr 2023 at 01:22.
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  2. Posts : 1,088
    windows 10
       #42

    Whether msi, gigabyte and asus you will have the same recent technical developments that the Z790 chipset brings.
    ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI is I think better than gigabyte, it always depends on people's needs, with an additional m.2, 4 in all, hdmi 2.1 (2.0 for gigabyte), display port 1.4 (1.2 for gigabyte), less important 3 x Addressable Gen 2 headers for a-rgb(2 for gigabyte)... These are examples of what you need to compare.
    Do not take msi if the warranty is only 1 year, you will have the same thing at asus and gigabyte.
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  3. Posts : 7,922
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #43

    itsme1 said:
    Whether msi, gigabyte and asus you will have the same recent technical developments that the Z790 chipset brings.
    ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI is I think better than gigabyte, it always depends on people's needs, with an additional m.2, 4 in all, hdmi 2.1 (2.0 for gigabyte), display port 1.4 (1.2 for gigabyte), less important 3 x Addressable Gen 2 headers for a-rgb(2 for gigabyte)... These are examples of what you need to compare.
    Do not take msi if the warranty is only 1 year, you will have the same thing at asus and gigabyte.
    Today I bought the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI and returned the ROG Strix board due to all the problems with the Noctua fan. In the UK we have a 35 cashback from Asus on the TUF gaming boards which brings the price down to about 250 best deal. The photo shows the TUF board has ample clearance for the 4.4 cm gap between the bottom of the Noctua NH-D14 cooling fins and top of the CPU.
    New Desktop Build for 2023 - CPU Choice?-tuf-board-vrms.jpg
    Last edited by Steve C; 13 Apr 2023 at 09:01.
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  4. Posts : 1,088
    windows 10
       #44

    Steve C said:
    Today I bought the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI and returned the ROG Strix board due to all the problems with the Noctua fan. In the UK we have a 35 cashback from Asus on the TUF gaming boards which brings the price down to about 250 best deal. The photo shows the TUF board has ample clearance for the 4.4 cm gap between the bottom of the Noctua NH-D14 cooling fins and top of the CPU.
    New Desktop Build for 2023 - CPU Choice?-tuf-board-vrms.jpg
    Nice . I didn't see the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI in noctua's list!
    I saw the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI D4 (which is ddr4).
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  5. Posts : 7,922
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #45

    itsme1 said:
    Nice . I didn't see the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI in noctua's list!
    I saw the ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI D4 (which is ddr4).
    My board with the DDR5 memory is new and not yet on Noctua's list. I looked at photos of the DDR4 and DDR5 boards which look similar and took the calculated risk it would be OK which it is.
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  6. Posts : 173
    Windows 11 Pro 23H2 (Build 22631.3447)
       #46

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  7. Posts : 7,922
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #47

    PenPusher said:
    I've now built the new PC using an Asus TUF Gaming Plus WiFi motherboard & i7-13700k CPU & Noctua NH-D14 cooler. All works! I'm still checking the BIOS configuration and haven't installed Windows yet.

    With BIOS defaults, the idle CPU temperature in the BIOS is 34C in the EZ Mode view. However, when you go to the Monitor page it reports a CPU temperature of 34C and a CPU package temperature of 45C. Does this indicate a well seated CPU?

    I then set the ASUS Multicore Enhancement from Auto to Disabled Enforce All Limits & SVID Behaviour from Typical Scenario to Intel's Fail Safe. I was surprised to find this resulted in the CPU temperature increasing to 43C. Why?

    I've therefore set those back to defaults. The only changes from defaults I now have are to set a maximum CPU temperature of 85C and limit the long and short duration power limits to 125W and 200W respectively.
    Last edited by Steve C; 15 Apr 2023 at 13:24.
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  8. Posts : 1,088
    windows 10
       #48

    Steve C said:
    I've now built the new PC using an Asus TUF Gaming Plus WiFi motherboard & i7-13700k CPU & Noctua NH-D14 cooler. All works! I'm still checking the BIOS configuration and haven't installed Windows yet.

    With BIOS defaults, the idle CPU temperature in the BIOS is 34C in the EZ Mode view. However, when you go to the Monitor page it reports a CPU temperature of 34C and a CPU package temperature of 45C. Does this indicate a well seated CPU?

    I then set the ASUS Multicore Enhancement from Auto to Disabled Enforce All Limits & SVID Behaviour from Typical Scenario to Intel's Fail Safe. I was surprised to find this resulted in the CPU temperature increasing to 43C. Why?

    I've therefore set those back to defaults. The only changes from defaults I now have are to set a maximum CPU temperature of 85C and limit the long and short duration power limits to 125W and 200W respectively.
    The cpu package is higher than the cpu temperature so it is normal.

    For Multicore Enhancement from Auto to Disabled Enforce All Limits & SVID Behavior from Typical Scenario to Intel's Fail Safe, did you try changing one setting at a time and checking the temperature to see which one was causing the temperature to rise? The temperature increases in idle but that does not mean that it will increase under load. You have to test... If you change a parameter, you have to be sure that it can be changed alone, that there isn't one or more parameters to change at the same time.

    By changing the temperature lower and the short duration power limits lower you truncate the performance of the processor and 200w seems too low to me and also useless if you put long duration at 125w.
    A bit of history before the 12th and 13th generations of intel processors there was the pl1(long duration) and the pl2-TAU(the short duration), and TAU is a value in seconds. The processor reached pl2 but only for a few seconds (the TAU) then went down to pl1 to finish the task to be executed. Motherboard companies bypassed the pl1-pl2 TAU, the pl2 TAU was running infinitely, there was no TAU anymore. For 12th and 13th gen intel processors intel chose to go the way of the motherboard companies there is no more TAU in the pl2 it runs infinitely this is now the value default operating mode of the processor.
    To eliminate the TAU you must, if you don't want to leave it on auto, set long duration to 253w and short duration to 253w or any other identical value for pl1 and pl2.
    If you set long duration to 125w and short duration to 253w (or a little lower) the TAU will be activated and the processor will only reach turbo mode for a few seconds and therefore the processor temperatures will not be much higher than if the long and short duration were at 253w. So if you put 125w for the long duration you can afford to put the short duration at 253w.
    You have several choices of settings:
    - 253w/253w (or both identical but less than 253w), higher temperature (with your cpu cooler you can afford it)
    -125w/253w(or a little less than 253w) low temperature.
    Never do long duration at 125w and short duration at 125w, you will lower the performance of the processor too much with this setting, returning to the performance of processors of previous generations.

    You should at first leave default bios settings, install windows(make backup images), monitor temperature during your usage tasks, do some real world load tests of CPU with software except prime95 vs occt and any unreal stress test software. At the same time, assuming that the motherboards do not fully respect the default processor settings, you learn the bios parameters of the cpu part so that you can set them to the default operating settings. That's what I'm going to do unless there's a forum that indicates the changes to be made. I will not truncated the operation of the processor either, I respect the characteristics of the Intel processor, I will have a cpu cooler adapted to the tdp max pl2.
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  9. Posts : 7,922
    Windows 11 Pro 64 bit
    Thread Starter
       #49

    itsme1 said:
    The cpu package is higher than the cpu temperature so it is normal.

    For Multicore Enhancement from Auto to Disabled Enforce All Limits & SVID Behavior from Typical Scenario to Intel's Fail Safe, did you try changing one setting at a time and checking the temperature to see which one was causing the temperature to rise? The temperature increases in idle but that does not mean that it will increase under load. You have to test... If you change a parameter, you have to be sure that it can be changed alone, that there isn't one or more parameters to change at the same time.

    By changing the temperature lower and the short duration power limits lower you truncate the performance of the processor and 200w seems too low to me and also useless if you put long duration at 125w.
    A bit of history before the 12th and 13th generations of intel processors there was the pl1(long duration) and the pl2-TAU(the short duration), and TAU is a value in seconds. The processor reached pl2 but only for a few seconds (the TAU) then went down to pl1 to finish the task to be executed. Motherboard companies bypassed the pl1-pl2 TAU, the pl2 TAU was running infinitely, there was no TAU anymore. For 12th and 13th gen intel processors intel chose to go the way of the motherboard companies there is no more TAU in the pl2 it runs infinitely this is now the value default operating mode of the processor.
    To eliminate the TAU you must, if you don't want to leave it on auto, set long duration to 253w and short duration to 253w or any other identical value for pl1 and pl2.
    If you set long duration to 125w and short duration to 253w (or a little lower) the TAU will be activated and the processor will only reach turbo mode for a few seconds and therefore the processor temperatures will not be much higher than if the long and short duration were at 253w. So if you put 125w for the long duration you can afford to put the short duration at 253w.
    You have several choices of settings:
    - 253w/253w (or both identical but less than 253w), higher temperature (with your cpu cooler you can afford it)
    -125w/253w(or a little less than 253w) low temperature.
    Never do long duration at 125w and short duration at 125w, you will lower the performance of the processor too much with this setting, returning to the performance of processors of previous generations.

    You should at first leave default bios settings, install windows(make backup images), monitor temperature during your usage tasks, do some real world load tests of CPU with software except prime95 vs occt and any unreal stress test software. At the same time, assuming that the motherboards do not fully respect the default processor settings, you learn the bios parameters of the cpu part so that you can set them to the default operating settings. That's what I'm going to do unless there's a forum that indicates the changes to be made. I will not truncated the operation of the processor either, I respect the characteristics of the Intel processor, I will have a cpu cooler adapted to the tdp max pl2.
    Thanks - I put those power settings back on auto keeping the max temperature at 85C. That gives a respectable Cinebench score of 29,844 and the temperature and power readings shown below. The maximum score reported for my CPU is 31062 so my score is 95% of that reported. Just setting a CPU temperature limit seems a simple way of controlling the heat.
    New Desktop Build for 2023 - CPU Choice?-cinebench.jpg
    Last edited by Steve C; 16 Apr 2023 at 10:03.
      My Computers


  10. Posts : 1,088
    windows 10
       #50

    OK, that's good.

    The pl2 4095 watts, as soon as you know that this option can be changed alone, it is to be put at 253w. So you have a TAU that can exceed 253w, it's in seconds but it can reach/exceed 60 seconds. On an Intel processor with the "no power limit" setting I had seen it had reached 350w, 100w more. You can override the 85 safe temperature when you know that 100 is a 24/7 operating temperature and the bios options match the processor.
    I know for newer ryzen, from amd's words, max temp, is 24/7 working temp. If so, the max temperature may already be a temperature with a safety margin.

    I will probably buy a noctua cpu cooler for their compatibility list. I saw that their cooler was sold with an adapter to reduce the rpm and cfm of the fans. I don't know about you but I'm not going to use the adapter, there is no miracle for high tdp the fans must be at or near their maximum, reduced by the motherboard if it's a little too loud . That said for now I'm on an i5 13600k because I don't want a 2 tower cpu cooler, the tdp of 181w is good for the noctua nh-u12a.
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