Everything these people told you isn't wrong but that's not the solution
You need a Contact Frame and remove the stock ILM from the Intel Board.
Use this your temps will go down by 20c The Z690 and Z790 suffer from poor OEM latches they bend the cpu and distorts contact from cooler to cpu .
This should solve your issues i am using one with a 13900k and i stay around 85c full load stock with max boost enabled and overclocked memory
You will be surprised many call support personnel for companies like this don't really know a whole lot its common like maybe 10% of the call people actually know about computers at an enthusiast level let alone a basic principle understanding level the other 90% of them just read systematically from a systematic flow chart when corresponding with customers and know very little on how the components of a pc work.
It also does not matter that i linked you the data sheet for 13th gen there is not much different between the two generations, the main outlier is they are both 10nm dies and they are also back to back generations both points of which means they are very similar almost identical bar a few extra features on 13th gen.
When i clicked through 12th gen to get the data sheet it took me to 13th gen i could not be bothered to go and find the 12th gen sheet for this reason coz it does not matter the principle is still the same.
Intel ME is irrelevant in the thread as its out of context and not part of the issue.
Contact frame is situational and is about min/maxing your rig after its cooling solution is adequate its not the fundamental solution. Your first solution is getting a cooler that is rated for 180TDP or higher. I did already mention this in my previous post.
under voting and contact frame are min/maxing your setup. Cooling solution is fundamental.
Again the stock RM1 cooler is only rated to 65TDP this is 100% your problem, so as soon as you boost which is going to happen when you run something like a virus scan then your cooler becomes in effective as soon as you boost.
Well its a combo of three things the points the person before me made and p/c states but mainly its your cooler. The other stuff like dialing in your Pstates like under volting comes from again min/maxing.
You have to think like this 65TDP is the min/base rating for your CPU and the RM1 cooler is rated to a max of of 65TDP
Meaning your are only going to get effective cooling at a low Pstate basically only at idle or very light workloads like web browsing for example.
On the other hand virus scan is very performance heavy as its straining I/O of the whole computer at various times. Reading memory in real time and also evaluating things. These all cost so a CPU scales and will just keep turning up its performance as more workload comes which means more heat, assuming you are running as stock here and with boost as you never specified overclocking to a base.
You have to think also that 100c is your T junction so even though the stock cooler sucks it is still subtracting up to 65wTDP from 100c in your processors case it would be
cooler > CPU > T junction
65w > +- 65w-180w > +- T junction
Also note how the cooler is for both 12th and 13th gen. Again both 10nm dies and back to back gens meaning they are very similar in scope.
Intel(R) Laminar RM1 Cooler Specifications for 12th and 13th...
One other point that is relevant is that companies like this test batches of samples so they pick the worst and best parts in every way out of a batch of parts of the same make/family/model. They then use the selected parts as the control measures so that in theory all other parts that sit at a higher quality perform at in theory simulated better odds.
Regardless Intel has always made bad coolers for like the last 30 years. Ones that only just do the job as in they ship with a bare requirement of keeping the CPU from destroying the whole computer because money and cost cutting. They are not in the cooling game the are in the CPU game if you want a cooler go to a cooler manufacture
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Any support person that remotes in and installs the driver utility for you sounds exactly like one of the 90%. I just explained to you some logic basically your issue and how to solve it.
Id never let anyone remote into my PC either, you should of declined. You should also probably renew your external IP, if you want to try to roundabout me again then i don't know what else to say. I tried.
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You also have to take into consideration that if a tech support tells you something like "oh we can just RMA the part for you for free"
That they are just following protocol. There could not actually be anything wrong with the part but as long as its under warrant they are just giving you a good faith service and sending you a "new" part. They will then test your old one and if it falls under specs they will send it to the next RMA caller.
Last edited by Malneb; 30 Jan 2023 at 05:56.
Hmm.. Okay.. You are the first one saying this, most people are just telling me to switch to this CPU cooler: BE QUIET PURE ROCK 2. You think thats a solution or you think your solution is better ? I would be scared doing that myself though, i only touch my pc when i have to clean it inside and i dont take anything out, i only take the side off and then clean from there.Everything these people told you isn't wrong but that's not the solution
You need a Contact Frame and remove the stock ILM from the Intel Board.
Use this your temps will go down by 20c The Z690 and Z790 suffer from poor OEM latches they bend the cpu and distorts contact from cooler to cpu .
This should solve your issues i am using one with a 13900k and i stay around 85c full load stock with max boost enabled and overclocked memory
I will say this too. Aftermarket is the area of innovation its about min/maxing. Origin brands on the other hand like Intel are the authority so what i mean here is that a company like Intel works with vary borderline tolerances which they deem exceptable. They test their parts right up to what is allowable for any given platform. One because its about cost cutting two it stimulates economy.
Companies like Intel are industry leaders they are also conglomerates meaning they are umbrella corps and have vested intrest in the aftermarket probably own subsidiaries in several aftermarket companies. Meaning its a cash loop system. Computers in general is one big conglomerate just look at Microsoft, it owns Doom, the Elderscrolls World of Warcraft, Skype, various gaming houses just to name a few and that is underselling it they own lots of stuff like lots. But they all pat each others backs.
Its no different to AMD or NVIDIA reference cards. Exact same in that they push the boundaries of what is allowable without the parts self destructing.
Aftermarket steps in after the mother companies and we see min/maxing gains of like 30% or more. Contact frames are aftermarket. But at the same time just becasue someone is saying slap this aftermarket part on for gains they you need to realize that parts come from manufacture on a working acceptable basis. Comparing AFTERmarket gains to stock specs is kind of a misnomer because of course you get gains with aftermarket parts that is the point.
Its ok this is going right over your head i don't just talk for no reason btw.
I hope people dont hire people that dont know how to do their job, whats the point then and whats the point of education then ?
yeah okay, but what point in the pdf file is it that you want me to read ? Because there is 200 different points.
I didnt think Intel ME was a solution either, but im willing to try free solutions before spending money.
the problem is the shop i buy from maximum have 150TDP coolers, unless i wanna go AIO and i want to stay with air cooling, so would that be good enough ?
ive put so much time in to trying to undervolt now that i might aswell do it if its possible, i tryed with Intel XTU and Throttlestop, but they are greyed out and in BIOS, but people are saying to touch vcore in BIOS and i dont have anything called vcore so im probably gonna make a post to get help with undervolting.
The stuff with the contact frame sounds scary, since i dont like touching hardware, because im scared something is going to break, when i clean my pc inside all i do is taking the sides of aswell and then go from there.
in the link you posted i see that its saying this: Operating Temp 0 to 70C. So im guessing after 70 C it starts struggling ?
why renew my external IP ? Shouldnt i trust Intel ?
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All this makes sense
Well call support are only following a set of predetermined end answers, the tech guy you spoke to might actually know about computers but he is also not a magic wand and its only his day job. They also are bound to rules and cannot really step outside of what the computer tells them to say.I hope people dont hire people that dont know how to do their job, whats the point then and whats the point of education then ?
When he telling you do this do that he is just covering some fundamentals its hard to relay to various people that all have different computer skills that call in any given work day. They would get some people that don't know the basics like "how do i install that" so the easy method to his is just doing it himself.
I mean have you ever called a tech support and they give you the basic rigmarole and you can just tell they are reading a script?
Or good example of something that happened to me today, you explain to them simple af logic like
"my bank card is not allowing me in at the ATM because i entered the wrong pin to many times and it says i need to call you guys on the screen". The guy comes back and said "online banking? is not letting you in?". Like wtf no the ATM derp.
He still didn't even know what i was saying so he transferred me to someone else and then that airhead said oh you can only fix it on the app so i said "well the screen on the ATM said otherwise, so maybe they should go ahead and fix that message then" and she didn't even know what i was saying.
Call support are usually really generalized. That is why people hate talking to them, every now and then you get someone who actually understands you or know what they are doing.
None when paraphrasing from a source you link that source as verification. I already quoted inside my post the relevant texts to read.yeah okay, but what point in the pdf file is it that you want me to read ? Because there is 200 different points.
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I can't really explain all that other stuff because i should be asleep. Work tomorrow you can look it up easily or someone else may fill in.
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This is why we see things like the power connector issue on the reference 4090 etc. The aftermarket then comes in and makes solutions and "innovates" upon the tech and improves it. its in the name "reference card" is exactly that pushing the limit of what is possible so that the other brands come in and improve the tech.
Intel is to a similar degree but different, its just that their coolers have always sucked because they not in it for coolers.
Contact frame > innovation.
Wow thats a clueless support guy from your bank. Obviously when you are saying that you cant use the ATM because you entered the wrong pin code to many times, you are not doing online banking haha and yeah its kinda stupid having a message on the screen of the atm telling you to call them, just to get told to go into your bank app and fix it, thats alot of people waisting time in line to talk with the bank just to get told to go into the app and also the bank could help people with other stuff, so yeah maybe they should change that and not waste alot of peoples time.
All good, i think i understand my own questions, i might look more into what Intel ME is, how to undervolt and more into what a contact frame does.
I mean its just smart business for alot of companies i guess, lets take Intel and AMD for an example that makes the best CPU's, but not coolers, so they sell you the best CPU's, but then after you need better cooling and they then own those companies aswell or have stocks in there or whatever and they make more money.
Yeah basically.
Semiconductors > Electronic Device manufacture > Aftermarket parts
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
| Intel > > Foxconn > > Asus | v
^ < < < < < < < < < < < < < < <
Just a basic table its not accurate because a company like Asus does OEM as well as Aftermarket and also does electronic device manufacture, a company like Intel makes semiconductors primarily but also manufactures electronic devices and a company like Foxconn also makes semiconductors and also makes electrical devices. So there is horizontal overlap in many industry which stimulates money for all the companies involved.
Its a bad table but its hard to make something like that as there is to much nuance to it.
The other one is direct correlational in form of subsidiary so take a company like Microsoft they are currently trying to acquire Activation Blizzard as a subsidiary.
Which means they will own one of the biggest catalog of games Warcraft being a significant western MMO that has basically been a money printer for years. They also own Bethesda and a few other ones not sure of the top of my head.
Microsoft is also the developer of Direct X which if recall correctly Warcraft was one of the first games to get the newest Direct X 12 a few years back. So they pumping up the incentive ahead of time knowing that they want to eventually buy that company. Direct X being an api that is to do with a few things but mainly gaming primarily, Also a video/mutlimedia/gaming api so this means they are also in conjunction with video card manufactures like Nvidia etc. Its about making money and everyone makes money.
I guess all the long windedness was to say that yeah Intel has bad coolers but there is a few reasons why. Cost cutting and money.
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150TDP is going to bring you pretty close to the sort of temps you want and is definitely better than 65TDP cooler.
Yes operating temp is the external ambient temperature outside the computer. Like example if you were to put the PC inside a sauna and then crank the heat up to max then the cooler is going to be less effective at doing its job and also potentially fail quicker because its not recommended for those sorts of temperatures. It also 0 - 70c so if it goes to far the opposite way like inside an igloo of ice then it can fail quicker in these conditions too etc.in the link you posted i see that its saying this: Operating Temp 0 to 70C. So im guessing after 70 C it starts struggling ?
Because ethically you should not let anyone inside your lan like that. Does not matter if they are the pope or friend or Intel or who ever.why renew my external IP ? Shouldnt i trust Intel ?
If you apply it correctly then nothing can go wrong.The stuff with the contact frame sounds scary, since i dont like touching hardware, because im scared something is going to break, when i clean my pc inside all i do is taking the sides of aswell and then go from there.
Last edited by Malneb; 01 Feb 2023 at 05:56.
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