Hardware Thread 2020  

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  1. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #51

    CountMike said:
    I have a NVMe Samsung 960 evo drive for regular W10 and a Kingston V200 SATA drive on same machine and difference in speed is quite visible.When for instance major windows update is installing , SATA SSD goes up to 100% usage and stays there for quite a while which can put a brake on whole computer while with same workload NVME is barely used up to no more than few % and update finishes much faster with no influence on overall performance.
    How'd you come up with that? My OS sits on a Samsung 970 Pro NVME drive so that's obviously where the Windows updates gets downloaded and installed from. Point is my Samsung "SATA" 860 EVO drive never sees the Windows updates so I can't know how it performs there.

    Also speed is only as fast as the slowest link in the system. Example when moving files from my NVME to SATA or vice versa the speed is limited to the SATA drive.

    CountMike said:
    Similar effects are with games installed and run from NVME and SATA SSD. Games installed on NVME not only load faster but at cut scenes and when game accesses disk during play it's practically invisible while when same happens on SATA SSD it's quite noticeable drop and frame skipping in same game.
    I'm also a gamer and really saw no significant difference between games on an NVMe drive and SATA drive, and thus why I didn't waste my NVME to games, but instead put them on a SATA 860 2TB drive.
      My Computers


  2. Posts : 19,499
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #52

    sygnus21 said:
    How'd you come up with that? My OS sits on a Samsung 970 Pro NVME drive so that's obviously where the Windows updates gets downloaded and installed from. Point is my Samsung "SATA" 860 EVO drive never sees the Windows updates so I can't know how it performs there.

    Also speed is only as fast as the slowest link in the system. Example when moving files from my NVME to SATA or vice versa the speed is limited to the SATA drive.



    I'm also a gamer and really saw no significant difference between games on an NVMe drive and SATA drive, and thus why I didn't waste my NVME to games, but instead put them on a SATA 860 2TB drive.
    Forgot to mmention that my fast insider resides in Kingston SSD although I also had insider builds on NVME for a while while regular builds were on Crucial SATA drive.
    Those SATA drives are pretty slow as far as SSDs go but still way faster than HDDs where difference is much higher.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #53

    I don't know. I don't see the speed difference between SATA and NVME drives that significant in everyday use.

    Like everything it depends on what you get and where it's installed. I've always gone for performance drives for my OS. That's me. I remember when I moved from my Z87 system (i7-4790K) with a Samsung 850 Pro SATA drive to my Z170 board with native NVME support (installed a Samsung 950 Pro NVME drive) and an i7-6700K and thinking wow... not much faster than my Z87 system. That's me.

    Yes the "up to speeds" goes to the NVME drives, but things get equalized with different hardware and configurations. That's my point.

    That said, if you say you noticed a significant difference between SATA and NVME who am I to argue. I feel like my system become more snappier when I switched RAM modules
      My Computers


  4. Posts : 19,499
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #54

    sygnus21 said:
    I don't know. I don't see the speed difference between SATA and NVME drives that significant in everyday use.

    Like everything it depends on what you get and where it's installed. I've always gone for performance drives for my OS. That's me. I remember when I moved from my Z87 system (i7-4790K) with a Samsung 850 Pro SATA drive to my Z170 board with native NVME support (installed a Samsung 950 Pro NVME drive) and an i7-6700K and thinking wow... not much faster than my Z87 system. That's me.

    Yes the "up to speeds" goes to the NVME drives, but things get equalized with different hardware and configurations. That's my point.

    That said, if you say you noticed a significant difference between SATA and NVME who am I to argue. I feel like my system become more snappier when I switched RAM modules
    It's not "Significant" but it's noticeable in some scenarios specially when you have them side by side on same machine doing same jobs. Doing stuff that's not overly disk bound makes no difference even against HDD.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 2,068
    Windows 10 Pro
       #55

    slicendice said:
    There is a huge diff for certain workloads. But non of them were tested by Linus and his team.
    One Word: IOPS
    Well sure, but the general point is that unless used for a very specific workload, the average user, gamer, consumer, or enthusiast is not going to notice a difference. A Samsung 860 Evo gets up to 98k IOPS, while a Corsair Force MP600 can get nearly 700k. That's a huge difference, staggering actually. But a gamer isn't going to get remotely close to 98,000 IOPS, let alone 700k.

    In my son's case, with his SN750 1TB WD Gen 3, he can get around 560k IOPS. The difference betwee that at 680k IOPS for gaming, photoshop, and copying files from point A to B is going to be pretty much unnoticeable, unless the boxes are sitting side by side on a stopwatch with a very particular workload.
      My Computers


  6. Posts : 2,068
    Windows 10 Pro
       #56

    I think the true value of the SSD was always the random access speeds. With a standard mechanical hard drive, it took 15ms to get to files. On an SSD, it was about .1ms. So, no matter what, the jump from a mechanical hard drive to a gen 1 SSD was the biggest "holy crap" you were going to get. Going from SATA to SATA2 to SATA3 to PCIe x3 or x4....while theoretically better isn't going to have that same WOW factor...again unless you have a very specific workload.

    If I could have gotten a big name brand, PCIe Gen 4 drive for the same price as my 1TB PCIe Gen 3 drive, I would have went with the Gen4. But to get 2TB of PCIe G3 for $260 was the better choice for me, versus having 1/2 the space and faster benchmarks.

    With respects to Linus' videos, I would have bet without a doubt that the difference between SATA and PCIe Gen 3 would have been identifiable by everyone. I was kinda surprised to see that people struggled to know the difference.
      My Computers


  7. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #57

    pparks1 said:
    Well sure, but the general point is that unless used for a very specific workload, the average user, gamer, consumer, or enthusiast is not going to notice a difference. A Samsung 860 Evo gets up to 98k IOPS, while a Corsair Force MP600 can get nearly 700k. That's a huge difference, staggering actually. But a gamer isn't going to get remotely close to 98,000 IOPS, let alone 700k.
    Exactly!

    pparks1 said:
    In my son's case, with his SN750 1TB WD Gen 3, he can get around 560k IOPS. The difference betwee that at 680k IOPS for gaming, photoshop, and copying files from point A to B is going to be pretty much unnoticeable, unless the boxes are sitting side by side on a stopwatch with a very particular workload.
    Or running a benchmark test - which doesn't always equate to real world felt difference

    Trust me, I'm not knocking performance claims... all one needs to do is look at my system specs. I'm merely saying you'd need everything to be perfectly matched to get those "up to" speeds. And we all know perfection rarely, if ever happens
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 5,899
    Win 11 Pro (x64) 22H2
       #58

    pparks1 said:
    If I could have gotten a big name brand, PCIe Gen 4 drive for the same price as my 1TB PCIe Gen 3 drive, I would have went with the Gen4.
    And you would have been like others opining the performance isn't there. And the vendors declaring we said "up to" not guaranteed

    That said, we (me) all like our performance toys so...
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 2,068
    Windows 10 Pro
       #59

    sygnus21 said:
    And you would have been like others opining the performance isn't there. And the vendors declaring we said "up to" not guaranteed
    I have no doubt that a disk benchmark would have showed the right numbers, or right darn near the numbers. But i don't think i would be able to say in a blind comparison, which system was running PCIe3 and PCIe4 under about 98% of my typical usage.


    That said, we (me) all like our performance toys so... [/QUOTE]
      My Computers


  10. Posts : 19,499
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #60

    Still wondering why NVME of any generation or even M.2 drives are not cheaper than SATA SSDs, probably because of production volume but in few years time it may change. SATA is already very old tech. PCIe is moving up in speed and doubling up in with every version. Connected straight to CPU it has more and more potential. V4.0 just starting and v6. is already in the works, gonna miss v5 completely. That makes it what, 6 - 8 times the speed of PCIe v3 ?
      My Computers


 

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