2018 Hardware Thread


  1. Posts : 26,338
    Win11 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
    Thread Starter
       #641

    HPET-On or off in BIOS & OS


    A very interesting article from anandtech a few days ago( April 25, 2018) regarding HPET on Intel and AMD platroms, and sholud it be turned on in the BIOS, and forced on or not in the OS.
    This leads to four potential configuration implementations:

    1. BIOS enabled, OS default: HPET is in list of potential timers
    2. BIOS enabled, OS forced: HPET is used in all situations
    3. BIOS disabled, OS default: HPET is not available
    4. BIOS disabled, OS forced: HPET is not available
    This is important specially when benchmarking:
    Timers are highly relevant for benchmarking. Most benchmark results are a measure of work performed per unit time, or in a given time. This means that both the numerator and the denominator need to be accurate: the system has to be able to measure what amount of work has been processed, and how long it took to do it in.

    Ideally there is no uncertainty in either of those values, giving an accurate result.
    With the advent of Windows 8, between Intel and Microsoft, the way that the timers were used in the OS were changed. Windows 8 had the mantra that it had to ‘support all devices’, all the way from the high-cost systems down to the embedded platforms. Most of these platforms use what is called an RTC, a ‘real time clock’, to maintain the real-world time – this is typically a hardware circuit found in almost all devices that need to keep track of time and the processing of data.

    However, compared to previous versions of Windows, Microsoft changed the way it uses timers, such that it was compatible with systems that did not have a hardware-based RTC, such as low-cost and embedded devices. The RTC was an extra cost that could be saved if the software was built to do so.
    Ultimately, any benchmark software in play has to probe the OS to determine the current time during the benchmark to then at the end give an accurate result. However the concept of time, without an external verifying source, is an arbitrarily defined constant – without external synchronization, there is no guarantee that ‘one second’ on the system equals ‘one second’ in the real world. For the most part, all of us rely on the reporting from the OS and the hardware that this equality is true, and there are a lot of hardware/software engineers ensuring that this is the case.
    You enthusiasts should really take the time and read the article thoroughly through, the title says Ryzen, but it's about Intel too:
    A Timely Discovery: Examining Our AMD 2nd Gen Ryzen Results

    I have already made posts in the forums a year or two ago regarding HPET(forums search- HPET Cliff S)

    With the 8700K, Windows 10, and Maximus X system I now have, and some timer testing, I find on my system option 1.
    BIOS enabled, OS default: HPET is in list of potential timers works just fine.

    Here is the result I just got while rendering a 4K video to WMV, while Edge browser is open, and listening to Groove.
    The top one is WinTimerTester 1.1, and the bottom one is the timer tester in CPU-Z.
    I just fast clicked start/stop, and all times in the system timers are the same.
    On my MSI board with the 6700K it took a few seconds for the timers to catch up with each other.
    2018 Hardware Thread-image-001.png
    When testing timers, you need to be running a load with various programs running to get good multitasking results.

    Like I said this is only important for competitive benchmarking.
    Plus on a side note, the timers get messed up when your PC resumes from sleep, also affecting benchmark scores.

    I am not an expert on this subject, but have been interested in it for some time now, and have read all I can on the subject(TechNet, Microsoft Docs, tech sites and so on), but might have misunderstood some things, so, "Start your search engines!", if you have questions.
      My Computers


  2. Posts : 19,207
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #642

    Tnx. Cliff. I have already seen some discussions about HPET on Ryzen system and most concluded that HPET plays some role in some games. Unfortunately on my MB only some modded BIOS versions can control it but Windows can. I'm still tuning my system but also waiting for x470 version to show up around here.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 26,338
    Win11 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
    Thread Starter
       #643

    CountMike said:
    Tnx. Cliff. I have already seen some discussions about HPET on Ryzen system and most concluded that HPET plays some role in some games. Unfortunately on my MB only some modded BIOS versions can control it but Windows can. I'm still tuning my system but also waiting for x470 version to show up around here.
    Mike if you ask me, you only need to mess with it, unless you want to serious competitive benchmark.

    For day to day stuff, and the occasional heavy duty job, I wouldn't change thins, specially to force HPET in Windows you need to add some code to BCD so it starts at boot.
    And if your system is insider, that'll probably get changed at each upgrade.
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  4. Posts : 19,207
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #644

    Cliff S said:
    Mike if you ask me, you only need to mess with it, unless you want to serious competitive benchmark.

    For day to day stuff, and the occasional heavy duty job, I wouldn't change thins, specially to force HPET in Windows you need to add some code to BCD so it starts at boot.
    And if your system is insider, that'll probably get changed at each upgrade.
    According to their test, Ryzen practically doesn't care one way or other but newer Intels do more or less in games. I tried few tests with HPET forced/enabled/ disabled (in windows) and results were in order of statistical errors. Ryzen systems have SMT (Simultaneous Multi Threading) setting in BIOS which when turned of and with half cores disabled raised single thread score somewhat but practically cut multithread benchmark in half.
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  5. Posts : 123,223
    Windows 11 Pro (x64) 21H2 Build 22000.675
       #645

    Just a little more info on HPET, I found ....

    Here is how to check if HPET is enabled in the BIOS without having to reboot.

    Go to device manager, and then system devices. If you see High Precision Event Timer, then it's turned on in the BIOS.


    If you want to see whether it's turned on in the Operating system, use this command in the command prompt with admin privileges:

    bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

    If you get an error about element not being found, then HPET is disabled in the OS and isn't being used. If you don't get an error, and you get some kind of confirmation, then it was already enabled.
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  6. Posts : 19,207
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #646

    Seems that those 2 are contradictory:
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png 2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
      My Computers


  7. Posts : 123,223
    Windows 11 Pro (x64) 21H2 Build 22000.675
       #647

    CountMike said:
    Seems that those 2 are contradictory:
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png 2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
    Same for me Mike, as it is on in my bios and off in Windows, but, my benchmarking scores are dam good, so I am leaving it alone. :)

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it...LoL
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  8. Posts : 26,338
    Win11 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
    Thread Starter
       #648

    OldMike65 said:
    Just a little more info on HPET, I found ....

    Here is how to check if HPET is enabled in the BIOS without having to reboot.

    Go to device manager, and then system devices. If you see High Precision Event Timer, then it's turned on in the BIOS.


    If you want to see whether it's turned on in the Operating system, use this command in the command prompt with admin privileges:

    bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock

    If you get an error about element not being found, then HPET is disabled in the OS and isn't being used. If you don't get an error, and you get some kind of confirmation, then it was already enabled.
    Or you can just look in it's properties:
    By the way I did not turn it off or delete the drivers, this is the default after Windows was installed and I ran winsat formal)
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png

    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 19,207
    W11+W11 Developer Insider + Linux
       #649

    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
    But
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
    Which would mean it's enabled ?
      My Computers


  10. Posts : 26,338
    Win11 Pro, Win10 Pro N, Win10 Home, Windows 8.1 Pro, Ubuntu
    Thread Starter
       #650

    CountMike said:
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
    But
    2018 Hardware Thread-image.png
    Which would mean it's enabled ?
    Click general to see if it's installed/in use.
      My Computers


 

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