How I Fixed My Missing Network & Homegroup Computers

alancsalt said:

None of the "cures" mentioned have worked for me....

Usually turning on SMB1 on all PCs is a cure, did you try that?

alancsalt said:

Well, that was an improvement. Now one of the PCs can see itself and the other, but the other can only see itself.

Before they were both "blind".

That may be true but SMB 1 is obsolete and is itself a security risk which has been the case for a while.

Microsoft to Remove SMBv1 Protocol in Next Windows 10 Version (RedStone 3) Mind you, according to that article, it shouldn't even be available in 1709

This link says that automatic removal "only affects clean installations of Windows, and not upgrades"

Microsoft removes SMB1 from Windows 10 by default following Wannacry attack

Confirmed here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...r-version-1709

That last link also says: "Because the Computer Browser service relies on SMBv1, the service is uninstalled if the SMBv1 client or server is uninstalled. This means that Explorer Network can no longer display Windows computers through the legacy NetBIOS datagram browsing method."

I've disabled it on all my PCs for nearly a year. See my #36 above - it was already disabled long before I posted that.

The Wannacry Scare was a serious one for older Operating system designs such as Windows XP, Windows 7 but Microsoft had already hardened Windows 7, by issue of an update some time ago and, (they even issued an update for the obsolete Windows XP post Wannacry), 8 and 10 were natively protected against the vulnerability in the code that could be used by malware in the old operating systems.

I think, because of the usual panic reaction, (Oh the Sky is Falling!!!), in the general press, due to the large organisations in Europe who had not kept up to date with the required maintenance and were hit by wannacry, Microsoft released information generally rather than specifically. The problem of health services using XP was mostly a non issue as this was relating to embedded OS in medical hardware which were never connected to the internet. The main issue was with lazy IT departments who ignored the updates issues and just watched the nurses or something instead

For the vast majority of systems in home use the lack of SMB1 would not be missed, after all, they do not use networking with their single PC or Laptop.

The problem exists due to the fact that a lot of Linux devices rely totally on SMB1 for Networking this includes the majority of Smart TV, Media Players, and also Network Attached storage and USB attached storage to Routers Etc. As these items are only replaced occasionally and are quite expensive even if the change was made today for all the devices to use SMB3 to secure it, this would take many years

With the 1803 release Microsoft automatically switch off SMB1 but they have removed the stupid automatic Timed switch off key that that they added to 1709 .

There is another major issue for anyone who uses a home network the home networking in windows (Workgroup) relies on the old Computer Browser service from Windows NT which due to it's age totally relies on SMB1. so with the removal of Homegroup you have a choice remove SMB1 and lose Workgroup Networking, or keep it and worry about possible vulnerabilities.

Using Windows 10 there is no real concern but in a mixed OS network it is a possible risk

If you remove SMB1 it is still possible to connect windows devices by using the \\Server\Share or \\Server methods so all is not lost.

I will be looking at some alternatives for my network and will post back If i can find a reliable option with SMB1 turned off - It should be possible by Address Reservation in the router and a manually filled in Hosts file, but this is a long step backwards into history

Barman58 said:

The Wannacry Scare was a serious one for older Operating system designs such as Windows XP, Windows 7 but Microsoft had already hardened Windows 7, by issue of an update some time ago and 8 and 10 were natively protected against the vulnerability in the code that could be used by malware in the old operating systems.

I think, because of the usual panic reaction, (Oh the Sky is Falling!!!), in the general press, due to the large organisations in Europe who had not kept up to date with the required maintenance and were hit by wannacry, Microsoft released information generally rather than specifically.

For the vast majority of systems in home use the lack of SMB1 would not be missed, after all, they do not use networking with their single PC or Laptop.

The problem exists due to the fact that a lot of Linux devices rely totally on SMB1 for Networking this includes the majority of Smart TV, Media Players, and also Network Attached storage and USB attached storage to Routers Etc. As these items are only replaced occasionally and are quite expensive even if the change was made today for all the devices to use SMB3 to secure it, this would take many years

With the 1803 release Microsoft automatically switch off SMB1 but they have removed the stupid automatic Timed switch off key that that they added to 1709 .

There is another major issue for anyone who uses a home network the home networking in windows (Workgroup) relies on the old Computer Browser service from Windows NT which due to it's age totally relies on SMB1. so with the removal of Homegroup you have a choice remove SMB1 and lose Workgroup Networking, or keep it and worry about possible vulnerabilities.

Using Windows 10 there is no real concern but in a mixed OS network it is a possible risk

If you remove SMB1 it is still possible to connect windows devices by using the \\Server\Share or \\Server methods so all is not lost.

I will be looking at some alternatives for my network and will post back If i can find a reliable option with SMB1 turned off - It should be possible by Address Reservation in the router and a manually filled in Hosts file, but this is a long step backwards into history

@Barman58 I'm a bit confused here - could you please look at my id#36 which shows what I actually do. I am still in a Workgroup, using the default name of "WORKGROUP" but I have switched Homegroup OFF, SMB1 is disabled therefore Computer Browser is not running. I made no special efforts yet my computers all see each other.
All have Shares on them with appropriate permissions so i can Read or Write as I need to whilst maintaining privacy.

I regard this, as I said in #36 as "the standard Networking approach." It has indeed been standard in Windows since NT so your comments in red have confused my tiny brain

I am running 1803, which has lost the whole Homegroup system.

I believe this used to work to do the same "job" as the Computer Browser Service, It probably used SMB2 or SMB3 to do this but it meant that even if the Homegroup was not in use as long as it was available the data was made available to the network. When I have SMB1 turned off the network browser fails to show any devices on the network, but the manual method works as stated above.

With SMB1 active it works fine and to be honest I do not feel any worry about using SMB1 on my system, which all are fully patched and run Bitdefender including their Anti Ransomware

Barman58 said:

I am running 1803, which has lost the whole Homegroup system.

I believe this used to work to do the same "job" as the Computer Browser Service, It probably used SMB2 or SMB3 to do this but it meant that even if the Homegroup was not in use as long as it was available the data was made available to the network. When I have SMB1 turned off the network browser fails to show any devices on the network, but the manual method works as stated above.

With SMB1 active it works fine and to be honest I do not feel any worry about using SMB1 on my system, which all are fully patched and run Bitdefender including their Anti Ransomware

Gotcha - thanks! I'm fully patched on Winver 1709 (OS Build 16299.371) (I use Norton Security on my important PCs) and you're on the “Spring Creators Update” which I haven't been offered yet and is not yet available if i do a "Check for Updates".

To be honest that won't be going on my important PCs immediately as i have a couple of "sacrificial" test PCs which I'll do first.

When I do update one of them I'll report back here as to my findings regarding the Networking.

UPDATE:

I see from Windows 10 'Redstone 4' official name to be Spring Creators Update - Page 21 - Windows 10 Forums that it's been pushed back...I'm not in a hurry!

VBF said:

Gotcha - thanks! I'm fully patched on Winver 1709 (OS Build 16299.371) (I use Norton Security on my important PCs) and you're on the “Spring Creators Update” which I haven't been offered yet and is not yet available if i do a "Check for Updates".

To be honest that won't be going on my important PCs immediately as i have a couple of "sacrificial" test PCs which I'll do first.

When I do update one of them I'll report back here as to my findings regarding the Networking.

UPDATE:

I see from Windows 10 'Redstone 4' official name to be Spring Creators Update - Page 21 - Windows 10 Forums that it's been pushed back...I'm not in a hurry!

I am on the release preview so I received the initial 1803 release around 1st April worked for me without any major issues but MS held it back from general release due to a blocking bug.

I received the latest version Saturday so would expect either tomorrow or a week tomorrow for general release. This is of course assuming that the build 17134.1 is the actual release version.