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  1.    28 Nov 2015 #61
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 64
    Windows 10

    Perhaps this isn't a priority issue for Microsoft because out of a Billion users the majority probably only have 1 PC so they don't use Networking and aren't even aware of the problem.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    29 Nov 2015 #62
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,421
    win 10 Insider

    Yes, the vast majority won't notice but, hey, it is still a bad look to mess up networking. It should also be an embarrassment.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    29 Nov 2015 #63
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 11
    Windows 10

    Not usually in a position to be a Microsoft defender but technically "networking" is not broken.

    I can access all of the machines on my network as long as I connect to them by name - as in \\hostname.

    If anything Win10 has finally entered into the modern era and now can communicate with dns-sd so I can access a Linux or OSX box with a:
    Code:
    \\linux-host-name.local
    \\osx-host-name.local
    You can even access another Win10 machine that way if you open the appropriate port on it's firewall with a:
    Code:
    \\win10-host-name.local
    I also don't think it's a SMB version issue. When I connect to a Linux box for example it's connecting via SMB3.

    The problem appears to be network discovery as it is displayed under "Network" in explorer. All of this appears to point to an issue with the "Function Discovery" process.

    I work mostly with small networks ( less than 10 hosts ) so accessing by name is really not an issue. I also don't use Homegroups since I have no idea what that is and as most of the other hosts on my network are either Linux or OSX machines a Homegroup is irrelevant.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    29 Nov 2015 #64
    Join Date : Mar 2015
    Posts : 121
    Windows 10

    Admittedly I haven't tried, but are you forced to use homegroup if you're using MS Accounts?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    29 Nov 2015 #65
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 64
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by vram View Post
    Admittedly I haven't tried, but are you forced to use homegroup if you're using MS Accounts?
    From my observations not necessarily. I think the most important element of the puzzle is that we all have a wide variety of PC configurations and hardware/software components, pieces of which may or may not be contributory to the issues. That's always been the challenge for all the software developers out there. Every developer strives for a one size fits all objective as much as possible to save time, costs, and keeping things simple in a global diverse user environment, but inevitably some users will have a hardware/software configuration that doesn't sync with the universal fit and these kinds of problems arise.

    Based on all the comments and varying solutions on the many threads, it's apparent that's what's at play.
    Last edited by KRL; 29 Nov 2015 at 15:51.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    29 Nov 2015 #66
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts : 10,151
    Windows 10 IoT

    Quote Originally Posted by vram View Post
    Admittedly I haven't tried, but are you forced to use homegroup if you're using MS Accounts?
    No, I don't have any Homegroups on my network. I log in with a live ID on all my PC's. There is an option to "use user accounts and passwords to connect to other computers" under HomeGroup connections in Advanced sharing settings.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    29 Nov 2015 #67
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 29
    windows 10

    double posted some how is there a delete some where?
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    29 Nov 2015 #68
    Join Date : Jun 2015
    Posts : 29
    windows 10

    So after 1 1/2 days lately and since win 10 release and countless clean installs I finally got the network to finally half work but at least I can get files/drives that I need connected to where I need them more. Primary pc 1 starts a homegroup but when pc 3 boots pc 1 homegroup disappears and wants to join again but it errors out of re joining but pc1 can read pc 3 and pc3 can read pc1, now pc 2 can read pc 1 but not 3 and 3 can't read 2, 3 is off homegroup is back on 1 but 1 can't read 2. Pc 4 and 5 I'm afraid to even consider at this point.

    Oddly win7 homegroup/network was perfect for 5yrs then on to win 10 networking and bam one big disaster.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    29 Nov 2015 #69
    Join Date : Oct 2014
    Posts : 1,421
    win 10 Insider

    Quote Originally Posted by morbius1 View Post
    Not usually in a position to be a Microsoft defender but technically "networking" is not broken.

    I can access all of the machines on my network as long as I connect to them by name - as in \\hostname.

    If anything Win10 has finally entered into the modern era and now can communicate with dns-sd so I can access a Linux or OSX box with a:
    Code:
    \\linux-host-name.local
    \\osx-host-name.local
    You can even access another Win10 machine that way if you open the appropriate port on it's firewall with a:
    Code:
    \\win10-host-name.local
    I also don't think it's a SMB version issue. When I connect to a Linux box for example it's connecting via SMB3.

    The problem appears to be network discovery as it is displayed under "Network" in explorer. All of this appears to point to an issue with the "Function Discovery" process.

    I work mostly with small networks ( less than 10 hosts ) so accessing by name is really not an issue. I also don't use Homegroups since I have no idea what that is and as most of the other hosts on my network are either Linux or OSX machines a Homegroup is irrelevant.
    I agree, you can access the devices with \\name but that is not the issue with me and many others at the moment. Even with the dreaded 80070035 Path not found scenario it was always possible to ping devices and access shares with \\name. But prior to 10586 we used to be able to see all networked devices and then access their shares directly from file explorer.

    The Function services do not display the networked devices available as I have disabled both those services, re-booted, and my shared devices still appear in file explorer as usual.

    The use of SMB with Linux is probably variable depending on the Linux device. With my Linux based WD MyBookLive NAS, it does not show with 10586 but if I disable SMB2&3, thus forcing SMB1, it does show and all shares are displayed. So, in my system, SMB version does matter.

    Going on from device discovery we come to seeing the shares on each device. This relies on the Lanman client talking to the Lanman server via SMB. In my current case I can see the NAS shares but not the shares of other computers. These give the 80070035, Path not found error. This means that the Lanman client asks the Lanman server for the shares and if there is no answer from the server, the client puts up the Path not found error. This non communication is caused by the use of wrong SMB versions as I proved several months ago.

    We also get the situation where we can see the shares for a while, then we can't. This adds another confusion to the mix. I am sure this is tied up with which comp is the master browser. If you are working on the comp that is the master browser, you can see shares but if the master browser moves to another comp, you can't. This all points to a break in communication as no communication is required if you are on the master browser. At least this sounds logical to me!

    So, currently, I have SMB2&3 client disabled allowing access to my NAS shares but this stops simple access to my other comp shares but NAS visibility is more important.

    At the end of the day, we have to face the fact that before 10586 there was none of this nonsense and after 10586 we have these problems. I am also convinced by my current testing, and by my earlier skirmish with SMB version mismatches, that this is the cause of the changes we see.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    29 Nov 2015 #70
    Join Date : Nov 2015
    Posts : 64
    Windows 10

    Quote Originally Posted by upcoast View Post
    So after 1 1/2 days lately and since win 10 release and countless clean installs I finally got the network to finally half work but at least I can get files/drives that I need connected to where I need them more. Primary pc 1 starts a homegroup but when pc 3 boots pc 1 homegroup disappears and wants to join again but it errors out of re joining but pc1 can read pc 3 and pc3 can read pc1, now pc 2 can read pc 1 but not 3 and 3 can't read 2, 3 is off homegroup is back on 1 but 1 can't read 2. Pc 4 and 5 I'm afraid to even consider at this point.

    Oddly win7 homegroup/network was perfect for 5yrs then on to win 10 networking and bam one big disaster.
    Win 10 started off fine for me when I upgraded months ago with 2 Laptops that were running Win 7 and 1 with Win 8.1. There were just a couple small things like the program Speccy being deleted for incompatibility which I figured out how to get working compatibly. Then it seemed like all was fine until this Threshold 2 upgrade.

    So anyways I had and still seem to have a situation like yours upcoast. I have my Network and Homegroup working fine as long as I boot Laptop1 first which was the creator of the homegroup. It was all working without needing to do that after tweaking and fixing settings but there was another update a few days ago that messed it all up again.

    So there doesn't seem to be a solid fix yet that stays good as each update modifies settings. Do any software engineers from Microsoft ever read these forum posts???
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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