Help with my Win10's on a wired home network

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  1. Posts : 101
    Windolws 10
       #1

    Help with my Win10's on a wired home network


    I have 2 ea Win10s Home and 1 Win7 Pro on a wired home network.

    The 2 Win10s can see the Win7 just fine but they can't see each other.
    The Win7 can't see either Win10.

    Neither Win10 shows up as an icon in the "This PC" screeen.

    The network troubleshooter page say "No recommended troubleshooters right now"

    What can I do to fix this so that everyone can see each other?
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 34,902
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #2

    Share Files and Folders Over a Network in Windows 10

    To set up networking with Win 10 please see Option 1.

    You wil be aware that HomeGroup has been removed in Win 10
    Starting with Windows 10 version 1803, some features of file sharing over a network have changed, including the removal of HomeGroup. However, even though HomeGroup has been removed, you can still share printers and files by using features that are built into Windows 10.
    Unfortunately you've not stated the build of your Win 10 PCs - many ignore the forum prompt:
    Help with my Win10's on a wired home network-win-10-version.png

    Note that getting networking set up successfully can be tiresome as there are multiple steps.

    History: (so often omitted by posters)
    - is this the first time you've set up this network?
    - have the Win 10 PCs previously been networked successfully?
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 6,907
    windows 10
       #3

    Can you ping the Pcs by name or by IP can you connect via IP to the PC's?
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 101
    Windolws 10
    Thread Starter
       #4

    Thanks guys for the prompt replies.

    Here is all the info you asked about:

    2 years ago all 3 comp were Win7's and could all see each other over the network.
    1 year ago my wife replaced her Win7 with a Win10 and everything was still fine
    About 6 months ago I could no longer see her Win10 but she could see only my one Win7.
    I recently replaced my oldest Win7 so now we have 2 Win 10's (both build 19042 and 1 Win7.
    Both Win10's can only see my remaining Win7 but the Win7 can't see either Win10.

    Ping results:

    Win10/new to remaining Win7 = ok 1ms, none loss
    Win10/new to Win10/old = unreachable

    Win7 to Win10/new = 1ms, none loss
    Win7 to Win10/old = unreachable

    Win10/old to Win7 = 0ms, none loss
    Win10/old to Win10/new = ??

    Also:

    Win10/old only shows an icon for Win7 in File Explorer that works but doesn't show an icon for Win10/new

    Win10/new shows an icon for Win7 that works and also Win10/old but
    it asks for a password to get into Win10/old which I'm having problems finding.

    Win7 shows an icon for Win10/new but it errors out "cannot access".
    Win7 does not show an icon for Win10/old

    Appreciate any help,

    Rob
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 34,902
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #5

    Hi, again, please confirm you have reviewed all settings on the Win 10 PCs as per
    Share Files and Folders Over a Network in Windows 10
    To set up networking with Win 10 please see Option 1.
    Considering only
    but the Win7 can't see either Win10.
    Do you have SMB1 enabled on your Win 10 PCs?

    This is considered a security risk, but necessary to network older devices and some NAS hardware.
      My Computers


  6. Posts : 101
    Windolws 10
    Thread Starter
       #6

    Wow, that looks like a pretty complete list.
    I'll let you know how it goes later this week.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 6,907
    windows 10
       #7

    Eun this on all pc see if it see everything and note which is master broser NetBScanner - NetBIOS scanner
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 34,902
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #8

    Hi, my understanding is that there is only a master browser if SMB1 is in use.
    a. If SMB1 is in use, then the computer browsing service runs. Otherwise not.
    b. In practice if SMB1 is in use, then you see the delay of up to perhaps 18-20 mins before a device new to the network is 'seen'.

    This is usefully described here:
    Neighbourhood Computer Browsing with Windows 10 and FreeNAS - Basil's Tech Diary
    The role of the master browser is to maintain a browse list of computers that are acting as SMB servers. How is a master browser chosen? It gets elected through quite an elaborate election process. How is the master browse list populated? In a nutshell, computers announce their presence through lossy, non-routable broadcasts every 12 minutes. The master browser uses these broadcasts to populate the master browse list. The interaction between SMB servers and the master browser is limited to announcing when they join or leave the network and requesting a list of backup browsers. What is a backup browser? A backup browser maintains a copy of the browse list and responds to client requests for it. In a workgroup of fewer than 32 computers, there will be one backup browser. Backup browsers have their browse lists updated from the master browser every 12 minutes. (Note: Samba and Microsoft documentation differ on this point. Samba documentation suggests the interval is 15 minutes). How are computers removed from the browse list? The master browser removes a computer’s entry from the browse list if a computer announces it is leaving or if it misses three announcements in a row. If the latter occurs, as it will if a computer crashes or is shut down inelegantly, ghosted entries remain in the master browse list for 36 minutes! As the backup browser list may not be updated for a further 12 minutes, it may take up to 48 minutes for computers on the local subnet to be informed of a failed SMB server. Note that the time is halved to 24 minutes if the SMB server announces it is leaving instead of bombing out.

    It now becomes clear why network discovery is so unreliable. It can take a considerable amount of time to populate a stable browse list.
    For interest: a series of experiments in configuring Win 10 networking services- and which computers are seen or vanish:
    Network Discovery without Computer Browser service | Michael Firsov
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 101
    Windolws 10
    Thread Starter
       #9

    Thanks guys for hanging in there with me.
    To be sure, I've learned more than I EVER wanted to learn about networking.
    But unfortunately it hasn't solved my problem.

    The 3 computers still only have limited connection to each other.

    I completed dalchina's Share Files and Folders... Option 1 on all 3 computers.
    This took me several hours due to discrepancies in the tutorial vs actual displays.

    To sum it up, here's what I found.

    Win7 computer:
    -------------
    Can now see "part" of the Win10/new"

    It shows my Cannon printer icon and a Users Share folder only

    Workgroup "Join a Domain or Workgroup" shows a check box for
    "This computer is part of a business network" and
    if I check "This is a home computer" it won't save the check off.

    There's an error message in Network Diagnostics:
    "Your machine administrator has disabled Teredo locally"

    Also the WorkGroup diagnostics gives an error message
    "Enable Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) which I then enabled but it didn't help.

    Be that as it may, Both of the Win10's can still see the Win7 fine.


    Win10/new computer
    ------------------
    I confirmed that Network discovery and File and Printer sharing are checked
    I went into services.msc and changed Function Discovery Resource Publication from
    Automatic Delayed to Automatic (Trigger Start)??
    Likewise changed Function Discovery Provide Host from Automatic Delayed to Automatic


    Win10/old computer
    ------------------
    I turned on SMB 1.0/CIF Automatic Removal


    FINAL RESULTS:
    -------------

    No big improvement and netBScanner now shows absolutely nothing on all 3 comp instead
    of the partial results I reported below.


    CONCLUSION:
    ----------
    After so many unproductive and frustrating hours spent over the last week,
    I really don't want to take any more of anyone's time and feel I need to hire a local expert to help.

    You have both been very generous with your time and I really appreciate all the help.

    Rob

    - - - Updated - - -

    PS:

    Samuria,

    I just realized I forgot to post my results of the netBscanner (which after all of the above are now blank):

    Win7 showed it's own and the Win10/new. Both were marked as Master Browser

    Win10/new showed Win7 only, no Master Browser shown

    Win10/old showed Win7 only, I believe but I mislaid my notes on that one
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 6,907
    windows 10
       #10

    Have all pc got netbios running from a cmd prompt type

    ipconfig /all

    your looking for

    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled
      My Computer


 

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