Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed

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  1. Posts : 132
    Win 10
       #1

    Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed


    For many years I've had a successful wired network between 2 Win 10 computers and a XP computer. Everything was working just fine. 2.5 years ago I had a lightening strike take out the XP's network card and I happened to have a Netgear wireless USB that I used instead in my XP computer.


    It kept on losing the wireless network connection. I finally gave up trying to get it to work and found an exact replacement for my very old XP network card. I installed it and everything immediately worked fine, except for one thing.


    From my XP computer it can't access the Workgroup, so it can't see folders or mapped drives on either Win 10 computer. Yet I can use remote desktop on any of the 3 computers to see the other computers and I can see my XP computer and all it's files from both Win 10 computers.


    The only thing I can't do is access Win 10 files from my XP computer. Using Windows Explorer if I go to Network places / Workgroup. I get this error message - ":Workgroup is not accessible, might not have permission"


    Since I save lots of image files, I returned my XP to it's Nov 2016 state and one of my Win 10 computers to it's Nov 2016 state. Everything works fine whit both computers using those old images. I've left my XP computer using that old image, since I haven't done much to the OS and programs since then. But my Win 10 computer needs to be current.


    I looked at the Network settings of my Win 10 computer when using the Nov 2016 image and wrote down what I found, including some tweaks to SERVICES I did so I could see all my network computers in the Network folder. - I turned these services on:
    Function Discovery Services
    SSDP DiscoveryUPnP Device Host

    also this: Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Programs and Features>>Turn Windows Features On or Off
    Find SMB 1.0 CIFS File Sharing Support /check only SMB 1.0 CIFS client


    i wouldn't think any of these have caused my current problem. My guess is something has changed in Win 10, because my Win 10 computer has all the current Win Updates and some of the network settings look different than they did in Nov 2016.


    So I'm hoping someone has some ideas on how to fix this
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 24,664
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #2

    GerryPeters said:
    From my XP computer it can't access the Workgroup, so it can't see folders or mapped drives on either Win 10 computer. ... I can see my XP computer and all it's files from both Win 10 computers. ...

    also this: Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Programs and Features>>Turn Windows Features On or Off
    Find SMB 1.0 CIFS File Sharing Support /check only
    SMB 1.0 CIFS client
    XP requires SMB1. On the Windows 10 PCs the SMB 1.0 CIFS Client allows a W10 PC to see the XP machine. In order for an XP machine to see a Windows 10 PC, that W10 PC must have the SMB 1.0 CIFS Server enabled.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 132
    Win 10
    Thread Starter
       #3

    Great job! This has fixed the worst part of my problem. From my XP computer I can now access the mapped HD's to both of my Win 10 computers. Yet I still can't access the Workgroup on the XP computer. So I can't use the network printers or map new network HD's. I've tried alternate ways to setup the network printer and it appears the Workgroup access is the roadblock.

    The SMB1 setting is something that I changed about 6 months ago along with those others Services I listed, because my Win 10 computers were losing the networked computers that show in the network folder.


    I read that this was a quirk of Win 10 and those settings I mentioned were a fix for that. Obviously those tweaks didn't take in account that I also had an XP computer in the network, which explains why I had this problem arise.

    Your quick solution to the networked HD's makes me even more in awe of the excellent forum member's knowledge, even for obscure things like XP networking. My hat goes off to you.

    Do you have an ideas on how I can access the Workgroup?

      My Computer


  4. Posts : 24,664
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #4

    GerryPeters said:
    From my XP computer I can now access the mapped HD's to both of my Win 10 computers




    Do you have an ideas on how I can access the Workgroup?

    Sorry, no. I have XP as a virtual machine so that I can test problems like yours. I've never been able to get it to see any machine other than itself in the Workgroup
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 13,934
    Windows 10 Pro X64 21H1 19043.1503
       #5

    Have you done this yet?

    Control Panel
    Network and Internet Connections
    Network Connections
    Right click on Local Area COnnections and select Properties
    Select Internet Protocol TCP/IP and click Properties
    Click Advanced
    WWINS tab, check Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP
      My Computers


  6. Posts : 132
    Win 10
    Thread Starter
       #6

    Ztruker said:
    Have you done this yet?



    Control Panel
    Network and Internet Connections
    Network Connections
    Right click on Local Area COnnections and select Properties
    Select Internet Protocol TCP/IP and click Properties
    Click Advanced
    WWINS tab, check Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP
    XP was set to default so I changed it to your suggestion. Didn't fix it, should I reboot.Should I change this for both Win 10 computers? They are not right either. Reboot?

    thanks
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 24,664
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #7

    Ztruker said:
    Have you done this yet?...
    No, I hadn't. But when I did it made no difference, the XP machine still only lists itself in the Workgroup.


    I suspect that the problem is with the election of a master browser. All the W7, W8 and W10 machines (VM or otherwise) cooperate nicely in electing a master browser, but the XP VM seems to get left out of the discussions. So in the absence (as far as it can see) of any other master browser it sets itself up as a master browser too, with a list of just one machine (itself).

    Perhaps if I enabled SMB1 Server on all my machines the XP machine would be included in the election, but that's a step I'm not prepared to take I can connect from XP by \\servername or \\<IP address> so it's no real inconvenience.
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 13,934
    Windows 10 Pro X64 21H1 19043.1503
       #8

    The only XP I have here at home is a VM so not much testing I can do. I never cared about accessing XP from Win 7/8/10, just the other way so never really looked into this.
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 132
    Win 10
    Thread Starter
       #9

    Hey Bree check out this post, maybe it'll help

    XP Can't see WIndows 10 computers on workgroup

    I changed both Win 10 computers and the XP computer to "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" and rebooted all - still no workgroup access.


    I reverted one Win 10 computer to my Nov 2016 image and disconnected the 2nd Win 10 computer. With that XP could access the workgroup and it showed my XP and my Win 10 computer and all the HD's.


    Win 10 has changed something, because in the past I could access the workgroup. I hope we can find a solution
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 24,664
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #10

    GerryPeters said:
    Hey Bree check out this post, maybe it'll help
    XP Can't see WIndows 10 computers on workgroup

    Yes, it gave me the last clue I needed, this one in post #3:

    "Probably need to either get IPv6 running on XP -10 will use this protocol preferentially, or else disable IPv6 on Windows 10:"

    I changed both Win 10 computers and the XP computer to "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" and rebooted all - still no workgroup access. ... Win 10 has changed something, because in the past I could access the workgroup. I hope we can find a solution

    In the past I did not have NetBIOS over TCP/IP enabled in XP, which explains why I never saw the Workgroup from XP. Recently I changed my router for one that supports IPv6, which explains why I still couldn't see the Workgroup even with NetBIOS enabled (a W10 machine was the master browser for IPv6, but XP couldn't see it so made itself the master browser for IPv4).

    The simple fix (now that NetBIOS over TCP/IP is enabled in XP) was to disable IPv6 on my router. This has the advantage that no changes are required on any machine in the Workgroup. With no IPv6 addresses available all machines had to use IPv4. Now XP can see my Workgroup and all the machines on it (virtual or otherwise), W10, W8, W7 and (of course) XP.

    Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed-xp-workgroup.png
    Last edited by Bree; 09 Oct 2019 at 04:56.
      My Computers


 

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