Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed

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  1. Posts : 11,182
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #11

    GerryPeters said:
    For many years I've had a successful wired network between 2 Win 10 computers and a XP computer. Everything was working just fine. 2.5 years ago I had a lightening strike take out the XP's network card and I happened to have a Netgear wireless USB that I used instead in my XP computer.


    It kept on losing the wireless network connection. I finally gave up trying to get it to work and found an exact replacement for my very old XP network card. I installed it and everything immediately worked fine, except for one thing.


    From my XP computer it can't access the Workgroup, so it can't see folders or mapped drives on either Win 10 computer. Yet I can use remote desktop on any of the 3 computers to see the other computers and I can see my XP computer and all it's files from both Win 10 computers.


    The only thing I can't do is access Win 10 files from my XP computer. Using Windows Explorer if I go to Network places / Workgroup. I get this error message - ":Workgroup is not accessible, might not have permission"


    Since I save lots of image files, I returned my XP to it's Nov 2016 state and one of my Win 10 computers to it's Nov 2016 state. Everything works fine whit both computers using those old images. I've left my XP computer using that old image, since I haven't done much to the OS and programs since then. But my Win 10 computer needs to be current.


    I looked at the Network settings of my Win 10 computer when using the Nov 2016 image and wrote down what I found, including some tweaks to SERVICES I did so I could see all my network computers in the Network folder. - I turned these services on:
    Function Discovery Services
    SSDP DiscoveryUPnP Device Host

    also this: Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Programs and Features>>Turn Windows Features On or Off
    Find SMB 1.0 CIFS File Sharing Support /check only SMB 1.0 CIFS client


    i wouldn't think any of these have caused my current problem. My guess is something has changed in Win 10, because my Win 10 computer has all the current Win Updates and some of the network settings look different than they did in Nov 2016.


    So I'm hoping someone has some ideas on how to fix this

    Hi there
    @GerryPeters

    @Bree

    you don't need to disable IPV6 access provided Ipv4 can run concurrently -- usually on a home Lan addresses are in xxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xxxx (ipv4) format anyway.

    On later builds of Windows 10 you need this as well : (Has to be done on the XP machine of course).

    On the XP machine you need to enable SSP / NTLM (and of course on the windows 10 machines SMB1 must be enabled).


    Here's an old thread showing what to do --don't worry that it's a VM (physical machine same rules) or NAS - this shows connectivity to / from XP to Windows 10 and NAS type systems.

    XP and NAS (Samba) access

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  2. Posts : 24,649
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #12

    jimbo45 said:
    you don't need to disable IPV6 access provided Ipv4 can run concurrently -- usually on a home Lan addresses are in xxxx.xxxx.xxxx.xxxx (ipv4) format anyway.
    But I did have IPv6 and IPv4 running concurrently and it didn't allow XP to see the master browser for those machines on IPv6. And on my home network the router's DHCP server allocated each machine an IPv6 address as well as an IPv4 one.

    XP can't see the IPv6 master browser. All the IPv6-capable machines use that in preference to IPv4, leaving the XP machine isolated, becoming the sole master browser on IPv4.

    Not all of us have a Linux server on the network as you do, which is what you linked fix seems to be for.
      My Computers


  3. Posts : 11,182
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #13

    Bree said:
    But I did have IPv6 and IPv4 running concurrently and it didn't allow XP to see the master browser for those machines on IPv6. XP can't see the IPv6 master browser. All the IPv6-capable machines use that in preference to IPv4, leaving the XP machine isolated as the sole master browser on IPv4.

    Not all of us have a Linux server on the network as you do, which is what you linked fix seems to be for.

    Hi there
    @Bree

    No you STILL NEED the fix (NTLM etc) which will work giving XP and W10 access both ways on the latest W10 builds.

    I'll fire up an XP VM machine later running on a Windows 10 host (latest 1909 18363.418) and post some screenshots once I've copied / "cloned" the XP VM from the Linux server.

    Give me a couple of hours though -- going to local "hostelry" for a nice "liquid lunch" -- avoiding shopping which "SHE" of course wants to do when I've got a few days off !! .

    I LOATHE shopping in physical stores at any time unless it's looking at and test driving nice fast sports cars (icelandic roads would kill a ferrari stone dead in about 3 mins flat outside town) or testing a nice new Cessna plane --- "if only ..." (I do have a PPL --Private Pilots License --with instruments for night flying etc BTW !!).


    so had to say "Taking Dog for a walk !!" Best reason for having a Dog in these situations !!!!!!

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 13,934
    Windows 10 Pro X64 21H1 19043.1503
       #14

    Sooner or later IPV4 is going to be out of addresses then IPV6 will be required so this fix work-around will be detrimental.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 1,983
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240
       #15

    As far as XP is concerned, (lack of) support for current or recent browsers from Microsoft and 3rd parties means that the Internet is rapidly becoming irrelevant to this OS. It will have increasingly limited functionality as time goes by.

    However, local area networking is still possible using IPv4 on a private LAN that uses addresses in the ranges 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x or 172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255. So the IPv4 Address exhaustion problem also is irrelevant on the LAN as long as the router still supports the IPv4 Protocol.

    As far as changing policies to change the protocol preferences in Windows 10 means to do this are available:

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...advanced-users

    - provides easy fix wizards to download for setting policies and performing registry edits to:

    Automatically disable or re-enable IPv6 or its components



    To automatically disable or re-enable IPv6 or its components, follow these steps:

    1. Click the Download button for the procedure that you want to run.
    2. Click Run or Open in the File Download dialog box.
    3. Follow the steps in the easy fix wizard.

    Prefer IPv4 over IPv6 in prefix policies Disable IPv6 on all nontunnel interfaces Disable IPv6 on all tunnel interfaces Disable IPv6 on nontunnel interfaces (except the loopback) and on IPv6 tunnel interface
    Download Download Download Download

    Prefer IPv6 over IPv4 in prefix policies Re-enable IPv6 on all nontunnel interfaces Re-enable IPv6 on all tunnel interfaces Re-enable IPv6 on nontunnel interfaces and on IPv6 tunnel interfaces
    Download Download Download Download


    Notes for wizard

    Whether these would help the OP or Bree in their respective cases would require them to try these out and report back...

    Still what's the rush, regarding IPv6 changeover?

    Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed-image.pngw3techs estimate that IPv6 is on 14.6% of websites, and full adoption is 48 years in the future!

    Google (who do use IPv6) show an average of less than ~25 percent connectivity from all users over IPv6:

    Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed-image.png








      My Computers


  6. Posts : 8,633
    Mac OS Catalina
       #16

    Ztruker said:
    Sooner or later IPV4 is going to be out of addresses then IPV6 will be required so this fix work-around will be detrimental.
    Never going to happen. IANA just recovered a huge block. There can be up to 4 Billion IPv4 addresses. There are still ISP’s only using IPv4.
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 13,934
    Windows 10 Pro X64 21H1 19043.1503
       #17
      My Computers


  8. Posts : 24,649
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #18

    Fafhrd said:
    Whether these would help the OP or Bree in their respective cases would require them to try these out and report back...
    Still what's the rush, regarding IPv6 changeover?
    Thank you for your welcome contribution.

    For my part it is not a pressing issue as my ISP (BT) supports IPv6 on all their broadband, albeit with only their BTHub 6 router (which is the one I now have) capable of using it.

    It has been interesting to note the part that IPv6 vs IPv4 plays in the case of the master browser, and that it's possible to have two master browsers active at the same time, one on IPv6 and the other (the XP machine) on IPv4.

    I have re-enabled IPv6 on my router now, as that's seem to be what all my machines (bar XP) prefer to use. I'll live with XP not seeing anything but itself on the network, as I can connect directly to a share from XP using the \\servername (and everything else can see the XP machine on the network anyway). I mainly keep the XP VM handy for support questions like this thread, not for any serious use. (the same could increasingly be said for the W7 and W8 VM's).


    BTW, you can test your IPv6 connectivity by visiting this website: IPv6 Test and Dual-Stack Test For Network Connectivity

    Win 10 networking to an XP computer has changed-image.png
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 8,633
    Mac OS Catalina
       #19

    Ztruker said:
    It was speculation then and speculation now. There can be a total of 4 billion IPv4 combinations, with only a set amount on a LAN, while the rest would be from point of entry to the Internet to the next point to another network. Public IP’s are far from being exhausted.
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 8,633
    Mac OS Catalina
       #20

    Bree, IPv6 does not come into play with SaMBa for Master Browser. There are some things that use IPv6 on a network for com inly, but that is something that can still be argued. Elder OSís like XP use older networking protocols that newer OSís still use for backwards compatibility.

    Samba IPv6 Patch

    The next way of using IPv4 is to start using 64bit scheming. IPv6 has a huge security risk that has yet to be resolved, even though they have had since 1998 to figure out how to make it more secured. Dual Stacking is one way that large networks can hand out more IPís internally.

    draft-tian-ipv4-64-bit-00 - Internet Protocol, Version 4 64-bit Address Extension
      My Computer


 

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