LAN speed is being throttled somehow.

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  1. Posts : 61
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    Thread Starter
       #11

    Snickie - I checked fast.com and it came back with 51 Mb/s. Following that I opened YouTube and played several 4K videos - all ran perfectly. So I assume this proves the router and TV are ok, so not sure where that leaves me.
    This got me thinking about bitrates. The mp4 properties that started all this is showing Data rate: 104113kbps / Total bitrate: 104270kbps. Problem solved? Not sure. I may need to take this discussion over to a video forum. The camera that created the video was set at 60Mbps. It's capable of 100Mbps. What is now confusing is when I post-edit, the video is then exported to mp4 at 100Mbps and I think there lies the rub. Trouble is Premiere only exports 30, 100 or 200Mbps.
    I assumethe YouTube videos are much lower bitrates than my cameras can produce, which leads you to think, cameras are designed to output high quality that can only be displayed via digital connection such as HDMI or Bluetooth.
    Or am I reading this all wrong?
    Thanks for your assistance. I need to talk to video guys now before admin kick me for being off the forum topic.

    One more thought. My LAN is Gigabit so surely 100Mbps shouldn't be a problem. I can only think that the TV cannot handle Gigabit. The TV spec doesn't show it. This could end up with a long HDMI cable running through the house from PC to TV.
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  2. Posts : 11,234
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #12

    sydh said:
    Snickie - I checked fast.com and it came back with 51 Mb/s. Following that I opened YouTube and played several 4K videos - all ran perfectly. So I assume this proves the router and TV are ok, so not sure where that leaves me.
    This got me thinking about bitrates. The mp4 properties that started all this is showing Data rate: 104113kbps / Total bitrate: 104270kbps. Problem solved? Not sure. I may need to take this discussion over to a video forum. The camera that created the video was set at 60Mbps. It's capable of 100Mbps. What is now confusing is when I post-edit, the video is then exported to mp4 at 100Mbps and I think there lies the rub. Trouble is Premiere only exports 30, 100 or 200Mbps.
    I assumethe YouTube videos are much lower bitrates than my cameras can produce, which leads you to think, cameras are designed to output high quality that can only be displayed via digital connection such as HDMI or Bluetooth.
    Or am I reading this all wrong?
    Thanks for your assistance. I need to talk to video guys now before admin kick me for being off the forum topic.

    One more thought. My LAN is Gigabit so surely 100Mbps shouldn't be a problem. I can only think that the TV cannot handle Gigabit. The TV spec doesn't show it. This could end up with a long HDMI cable running through the house from PC to TV.
    Hi there
    forget the HDMI cable

    simply get an amazon firestick TV or similar -- VLC or Kodi will install easily on it -- do it from an android phone with fire2tv app or similar so you can install the app on the fire tv stick from your phone -- and then plug that into one of the TV's input HDMI slot(s) --- problem solved and these boxes are dirt cheap.

    Cheers
    jimbo
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  3. Posts : 61
    10 Home 64bit
    Thread Starter
       #13

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi there
    forget the HDMI cable

    simply get an amazon firestick TV or similar -- VLC or Kodi will install easily on it -- do it from an android phone with fire2tv app or similar so you can install the app on the fire tv stick from your phone -- and then plug that into one of the TV's input HDMI slot(s) --- problem solved and these boxes are dirt cheap.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    Can't use HDMI anyway. I would need a 10m cable which is not possible, and fibre optic is way too expensive.
    Interested in your Firestick idea but where does the stick get the signal from? I assumed they worked on wifi or ethernet, in which case I still have the same problem.
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  4. Posts : 4,594
    Windows 10 Pro x64, Various Linux Builds, Networking, Storage, Cybersecurity Specialty.
       #14

    Better late than never... IMO...

    With some exceptions, you really need a minimum download speed of 2-3 Megabits per second to watch a single video stream in clear, standard definition.
    The best Internet speed for HD streaming is 5Mbps, and if you go all the way up to 4k streaming or ultra HD, your bandwidth should start at 25Mbps.
    You can get by on a congested network if you lower your app's image quality settings, but for a consistently clear streaming experience, aim higher.

    If your router can do this with ease then save your money.

    FWIW
      My Computer


  5. Posts : 11,234
    Windows / Linux : Arch Linux
       #15

    sydh said:
    Can't use HDMI anyway. I would need a 10m cable which is not possible, and fibre optic is way too expensive.
    Interested in your Firestick idea but where does the stick get the signal from? I assumed they worked on wifi or ethernet, in which case I still have the same problem.

    Hi there

    @sydh

    depending on whether you are using data from your computer or the internet the client on things like amazon firestick can use PLEX, VLC, KODI etc to receive multi-media from your computer. For Netflix and amazon prime it uses your standard Internet. You don't need any server software on your computer unless you are actually streaming data from it rather than just accessing shared multi-media folders. If you MUST transcode data do it either on your computer before transmitting the data stream i.e in the server software or do it on the Amazon fire TV stick in the client software (i.e the media player you are using). Most TV's have pretty low power CPU's so they will usually pack up when trying say to transcode a decently compressed for example H265 HEVC data stream !!! which the amazon fire TV stick can do with ease.

    These boxes have built in decent CPU so they will do any transcoding (i.e convert the raw signal into a playable format on the TV) required so the only thing your internet / lan needs is to have a sufficient data rate which most places do now,

    To use the firestick simply install the client software on it (Kodi / vlc / plex or whatever) - which you can do easily from an android smart phone with apps2fire type of thing - it's easy to do !! and plug the HDMI output of the amazon box into the TV -- you don't even need a smart TV to use amazon firetv -- just an HDMI connection. Note for 4K UHD you need the later version of HDMI cables (> V2).

    Apps2Fire - Apps on Google Play

    I can assure you it DOES work -- some people would STILL find a problem if you went out into the street and gave them 1,000 USD absolutely free !!!! -- I've latest android release and no issues with that application at all --am using Amazon 4k UHD fire TV box -- works brilliantly.

    Cheers
    jimbo
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 61
    10 Home 64bit
    Thread Starter
       #16

    Compumind said:
    Better late than never... IMO...

    With some exceptions, you really need a minimum download speed of 2-3 Megabits per second to watch a single video stream in clear, standard definition.
    The best Internet speed for HD streaming is 5Mbps, and if you go all the way up to 4k streaming or ultra HD, your bandwidth should start at 25Mbps.
    You can get by on a congested network if you lower your app's image quality settings, but for a consistently clear streaming experience, aim higher.

    If your router can do this with ease then save your money.

    FWIW
    Thanks Compumind. My problem is that I am creating high bitrate 4K. You say 25Mbps is ok for 4K but 4K comes at different bitrates and mine is at 100Mbps. I'm cutting that down from a possible 200Mbps. This is why I am looking at ignoring the TV network card which seems to be limited. It seems Firestick may be worth a try to maintain the very high quality. I have already played 100Mbps through HDMI successfully.

    - - - Updated - - -

    jimbo45 said:
    Hi there

    @sydh

    depending on whether you are using data from your computer or the internet the client on things like amazon firestick can use PLEX, VLC, KODI etc to receive multi-media from your computer. For Netflix and amazon prime it uses your standard Internet. You don't need any server software on your computer unless you are actually streaming data from it rather than just accessing shared multi-media folders. If you MUST transcode data do it either on your computer before transmitting the data stream i.e in the server software or do it on the Amazon fire TV stick in the client software (i.e the media player you are using). Most TV's have pretty low power CPU's so they will usually pack up when trying say to transcode a decently compressed for example H265 HEVC data stream !!! which the amazon fire TV stick can do with ease.

    These boxes have built in decent CPU so they will do any transcoding (i.e convert the raw signal into a playable format on the TV) required so the only thing your internet / lan needs is to have a sufficient data rate which most places do now,

    To use the firestick simply install the client software on it (Kodi / vlc / plex or whatever) - which you can do easily from an android smart phone with apps2fire type of thing - it's easy to do !! and plug the HDMI output of the amazon box into the TV -- you don't even need a smart TV to use amazon firetv -- just an HDMI connection. Note for 4K UHD you need the later version of HDMI cables (> V2).

    Apps2Fire - Apps on Google Play

    I can assure you it DOES work -- some people would STILL find a problem if you went out into the street and gave them 1,000 USD absolutely free !!!! -- I've latest android release and no issues with that application at all --am using Amazon 4k UHD fire TV box -- works brilliantly.

    Cheers
    jimbo
    I will have a try with Firestick. Hopefully the new Orbi when it arrives will give a good stream capable of 100Mbps or better.
      My Computer



  7. Posts : 4,594
    Windows 10 Pro x64, Various Linux Builds, Networking, Storage, Cybersecurity Specialty.
       #17

    sydh said:
    My problem is that I am creating high bitrate 4K. You say 25Mbps is ok for 4K but 4K comes at different bitrates and mine is at 100Mbps. I'm cutting that down from a possible 200Mbps.
    A 100 Mbps to 200 Mbps stream for 4K? No way, high bitrate or not.
    It's a waste of bandwidth, IMHO.

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  8. Posts : 61
    10 Home 64bit
    Thread Starter
       #18

    Compumind said:
    A 100 Mbps to 200 Mbps stream for 4K? No way, high bitrate or not.
    It's a waste of bandwidth, IMHO.

    That's what decent cameras do. The 4K transmitted by BBC, Netflix, etc is low quality 4K. Play a 4K DVD which is better quality and you will see the difference. Considering I create films in high quality 4K, it seems a shame that I am having to reduce the quality of the video to view it on a TV.
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  9. Posts : 4,594
    Windows 10 Pro x64, Various Linux Builds, Networking, Storage, Cybersecurity Specialty.
       #19

    sydh said:
    That's what decent cameras do. The 4K transmitted by BBC, Netflix, etc is low quality 4K. Play a 4K DVD which is better quality and you will see the difference. Considering I create films in high quality 4K, it seems a shame that I am having to reduce the quality of the video to view it on a TV.
    Perhaps that you have a fine eye for this level of detail. I have a 4K player and also stream at 4K. the difference is small.

    Is it possible that you are not using any sort of compression, i.e. lossless?

    Thanks.

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  10. Posts : 61
    10 Home 64bit
    Thread Starter
       #20

    Compumind said:
    Perhaps that you have a fine eye for this level of detail. I have a 4K player and also stream at 4K. the difference is small.

    Is it possible that you are not using any sort of compression, i.e. lossless?

    Thanks.

    I convert all video to MP4 which is lossy. H264 & 265 are both lossy. AVI is supposed to be better but more restrictive. I believe RGB24 is lossless but there's nothing that will play it. Besides, the file sizes would be incredible. I have 5TB of storage and I have only fairly recently started 4K. The video that started this thread is a 1 hour video rendered at 100Mbps and the file size is over 100Gb. To be honest I'm not sure what happens in the future, despite HDDs getting bigger all the time. Commercial studios are filming in 8K and they are looking at 16K. At the moment, this has been driven by cinema and TV screen sizes but there has to be a sensible limit. Clearly networking has a long way to go before it catches up with the film technology.
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