Windows 10: Another "1803" broke my home network

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  1.    15 May 2018 #1

    Another "1803" broke my home network


    I've got a home network with ~9 computers on it.

    As "bad" as Homegroup seemed to be for some, it worked for me...almost all the time. (On occasion, I'd have to leave the homegroup and then reboot.)

    Now, with 1803, no two computers can see each other. I -can- access a word document from a shortcut on computer 1 with the file on computer 2. I cannot, however, access any file on computer 2 which do not have pre-existing shortcuts.

    I do a lot of file swapping between machines. If I can't see each other, that makes it a bit difficult.

    I've been reading through a LOT of threads. Since this has affected me since this morning, I'm still in early phase of trying to sort exactly what might work and what doesn't.

    I'd think this would be such a fundamental part of an OS that setting up a LAN would be something that could be done by an "applet".

    I'm not a programmer. If I were a plumber, I can't imagine going to a customer's house and just dropping off a bunch of pipe and fittings. It seems that's the analogy to me: I had a working LAN in 1709, but now the update to the "better" version, 1803, has broken it.

    Like I said, it's still early innings and I'm clicking around trying to fix this thing. My point?

    ===

    Is there any word, rumor, or hope that this LAN/Network issue will be fixed, soon?

    ===

    Thanks,
    Ken
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    15 May 2018 #2

    There are two services you need to set to Automatic(Delayed Start)

    Function Discovery Provider Host
    Function Discovery Resource Publication


    Right click the Start button and click on Run near the bottom of the menu that shows. Type services.msc in the Run box and press enter to open the Services List. Scroll down until you find the Function Discovery Provider Host. Double click it to open the Properties. Change the Startup type to Automatic(Delayed Start). Then click the Start button below where you set the Startup type. Click Apply then OK. Do the same with Function Discovery Resource Publication. That PC will now show on the network.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    16 May 2018 #3

    Access Denied said: View Post
    There are two services you need to set to Automatic(Delayed Start)

    Function Discovery Provider Host
    Function Discovery Resource Publication


    Right click the Start button and click on Run near the bottom of the menu that shows. Type services.msc in the Run box and press enter to open the Services List. Scroll down until you find the Function Discovery Provider Host. Double click it to open the Properties. Change the Startup type to Automatic(Delayed Start). Then click the Start button below where you set the Startup type. Click Apply then OK. Do the same with Function Discovery Resource Publication. That PC will now show on the network.
    First, Access Denied, thanks for all the help you've offered on this forum. I've been reading a lot of your network solutions for others, and have attempted to use those techniques in my specific case.

    For this purpose, I'll limit myself to 4 computers on my home network
    1. KenII
    2. Kids
    3. SuperBasement
    4. Ken SuperLap


    Only computer number 2, Kids, is now on 1803, and as such does not have Homegroup.


    In every case, each computer has;

    = Function Discovery Provider Host set to Automatic (Delayed)
    = Function Discovery Resource Publication set to Automatic (Delayed)

    = Network and Internet, Private: Discovery turned on; Automatic Setup of connected devices turned on
    = Network and Internet, All Networks: Password protected sharing turned off

    = I've gone through each computer and chosen Desktop, Documents, Downloads, Music, Pictures, and Videos folders and gone into Properties, Sharing, Everyone (Added), Read and Write.


    I'm going to attach some images...

    My router IP table, showing what's connected:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	router ip list.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	237.1 KB 
ID:	188928

    The network, as seen from computer 2, Kids, which is on 1803 (All computers are awake and logged in):

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kids network.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	87.6 KB 
ID:	188929

    And the netscanner results:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Netscanner pix.JPG 
Views:	3 
Size:	79.2 KB 
ID:	188930

    More, in the next...
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    16 May 2018 #4

    If the other computers are on a Homegroup, that may be why they are not showing up. I have not had any interaction on a network where some computers have had a Homegroup and others have not.

    Are the other computers on 1709 showing and working correctly?

    And also, what happens if you type in the address bar of File Explorer the name of a PC:

    \\Name

    Does it work that way?

    EDIT: I just noticed you did not write you had checked on the Security tab. In there you will need to allow NTFS permissions to Everyone as well.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    16 May 2018 #5

    A host of questions arise.

    1. Why can't Kids see the other 3 computers?

    2. Why do some of the other computers not have their correct name? (e.g. Laptop-K5G048LS is NOT how I have named my laptop. "SuperBasement" has "SuperBasement:Carolyn" as its name. That's odd. It -used- to be my wife's (Carolyn) primary rig, but I renamed it. What did I miss?)

    3. Netscanner does not scan the machine from which it is run. Odd.

    4. Why are the two visible computers (laptop and basement) listed as BOTH a computer AND a media device?

    5. When I click on the Kids network icon and select the Basement computer, this is what I see:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Looking at Basement from Kids.JPG 
Views:	5 
Size:	153.2 KB 
ID:	188931

    There is only ONE of each of the duplicated folders residing on the Basement computer. Yet, in Network, there seems to be 4 or 5 of -some- folders. (Clicking in, each repeated folder has identical contents.)

    6. Finally, on the Kids computer (v1803), the Homegroup icon is missing from the Start button quick links. That's expected. However, the NETWORK icon is ALSO missing. That is unexpected. I've got to go into the files/folders icon and then select network on the locations list along the left side. I'm sure there's a way to add it back in. I remember, vaguely, something about the settings. But, why would it be removed???
    Edited to add: found the setting by opening "Settings" and searching "Start Menu".

    Thanks,


    Ken
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    16 May 2018 #6

    Access Denied said: View Post
    If the other computers are on a Homegroup, that may be why they are not showing up. I have not had any interaction on a network where some computers have had a Homegroup and others have not.

    Are the other computers on 1709 showing and working correctly?

    And also, what happens if you type in the address bar of File Explorer the name of a PC:

    \\Name

    Does it work that way?

    EDIT: I just noticed you did not write you had checked on the Security tab. In there you will need to allow NTFS permissions to Everyone as well.

    Ahhh. The bolded. I'll go do that. Let's see if that helps.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    16 May 2018 #7

    As far as the duplicated I don't think I have ever seen that before. Perhaps reboot the computer with the folders that are showing duplicated.


    The computer name the "kids" computer sees is the name of the computer itself, not what the router may call it, etc. You can see the computer name if you go into the Control Panel and view All Control Panel Items. Click on System. That will show the Computer name, Full Computer name and the Workgroup.

    If you have setup some type of media sharing (different from files and folders) that would be why you see the other computer twice as a computer and a media device.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    16 May 2018 #8

    Access Denied said: View Post
    As far as the duplicated I don't think I have ever seen that before. Perhaps reboot the computer with the folders that are showing duplicated.

    The computer name the "kids" computer sees is the name of the computer itself, not what the router may call it, etc. You can see the computer name if you go into the Control Panel and view All Control Panel Items. Click on System. That will show the Computer name, Full Computer name and the Workgroup.

    If you have setup some type of media sharing (different from files and folders) that would be why you see the other computer twice as a computer and a media device.

    That is the reboot image. How do I dig out of that mess???


    Thanks for the naming hints. I'll see how/why it has two names.


    Media sharing? Not that I know of. All I've done is selected network sharing.


    NTFS permissions: in every case, each folder which I shared and gave read and write permissions, had full NTFS permissions (excepting "special permissions".) The laptop, as misnamed as it is, now shows. However...
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    16 May 2018 #9

    ...when I select the laptop icon from Kids network, this is what I see:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kids looking at Laptop.JPG 
Views:	2 
Size:	57.7 KB 
ID:	188937



    I have no desire, or intent, to see "Default", "Default.migrated", or the 1KB "Ken" file. The only item of interest/intent is that "Ken SuperLap". When I click into that, I see:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Kids looking at Laptop, one deeper.JPG 
Views:	2 
Size:	66.3 KB 
ID:	188938

    In THAT case, the shaded AppData is something I'd rather not see/have available. Nor did I select it to be shared.

    It seems that this network is pushing deeper into system files than I'd like. My goal is to make the "new network" work like homegroup used to. One selection for the computer I want and it should open up all the shared files I've selected, and no other.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  10.    16 May 2018 #10

    On the first picture, it shows me that the USERS folder has been shared. In the second picture it is same thing. If you share a folder it will share everything in it.

    I know this will be a major pain but you will need to only share the folders you want to see/access. Yes that means each one of the Desktop, Pictures, Music, etc. If you share the folder they all reside in, you will get what you see now.

    It would be best if you fixed this before you upgrade the rest of them to 1803. Other wise you will see this on every computer when viewing from 1803.

    Homegroup should have never been created. They should have made Networking with files and folders the default and made it easier for a home user to work with. This and the fact the two services are not running on 1803 computers makes this mess even worse.

    Once we get each step done I can answer the next question. :)
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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