Windows 10: Help Dual Booting Win 10 on Notebook With 500GB HDD and 256GB SSD PCIe

  1.    28 Nov 2017 #1

    Help Dual Booting Win 10 on Notebook With 500GB HDD and 256GB SSD PCIe


    I'm getting my first new notebook computer in 7 years. I have been told that the OS will come installed on the faster SSD drive. I want to install fresh copy of win 10 on to the 500GB HD just in case the SSD should crap out or just to use for troubleshooting. After installing a fresh copy of win 10 using the media creation tool I want to be presented with a boot screen at boot up allowing me to choose which hard drive I want to boot from. Tech support in so many words told me this. Any help or clarification or insight is greatly appreciated. Again, I have not as yet received the notebook. Thank you.
    Speaking with tech support without the aforementioned serial number was a chore and a half since the rep I got INSISTED that he could not answer my tech question without first knowing the serial number blah, blah, blah but I was pretty insistent and he let me go ahead and ask. I posted this here last week and got some help but I wanted to dig deeper:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/co..._p51_this_way/
    When I get the machine I want to dual boot in case the primary OS craps out. Box will come with a 500GB 7200rpm HDD as well as one 256GB SSD PCIe MLC OPAL2. I am assuming that the OS is installed on faster SSD. I want to image the SSD using either Acronis True Image or the free maximum reflect or Clonezilla either one I believe will accomplish the task and write that image to an external disk. Then I want to write the image back to the 500GB 7200rpm HDD ( I know I need to make the Hdd active so that it will boot before writing the image.) I believe I know I can just get a clean win 10 OS and install it on the 500GB but I would like to see if I can do it this way first. After I write the image I should be able to shut down and then restart and windows will present me with a boot sequence where I can choose which drive I wand to boot, right? Do I need to do anything in the bios to make this work or is this method as I have described it good to go? TIA
    P.S. Now, instead of cloning the SSD I am just going to go with a fresh copy of win 10 for the HDD.
    Tech support was difficult to understand but this is what he said I should do before going ahead with the install of the fresh copy of win 10 on the HDD so that I could dual boot. Any comments and clarification appreciated.

    1. Before install go into the bios (F1) and go to security and select disable secure boot.
    2. X - out of security and I should see an option for "Restart."
    3. I asked him if I am exiting out of the bios should I save the change he just suggested and he said no. After exiting security I should see "option restart" at lease that is what I think he said.
    4. I should then see something and I really could not understand him at this point "load setup default" and _OS option default and I should DISABLE that. And then save and exit out of bios. And then proceed with the fresh install of win 10 on to the HDD and after that has completed I could then restart and I should be presented upon boot up with a boot screen asking me which hard drive I want to boot from.

    Soooo. Does any of this sound familiar and do you all agree with these steps? As I said he was difficult to understand so I may have mangled the instructions but nonetheless guidance would be appreciated particularity regarding the steps he gave me. Thanks
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  2.    28 Nov 2017 #2

    The best way to do it to ensure that you have boot files present on the HDD as well as the install of Windows 10 is to wipe the hard drive, create an EFI System Partition (usually 150 MB), create an NTFS partition to hold the OS. Then use the DISM /apply-image command to put the OS on the NTFS partition, then use the bcdboot command to establish the boot files on the manually created EFI System Partition. You can also use the bcdboot command to add the second OS to the boot menu on the SSD so you don't have to mess with switching boot devices in UEFI firmware every time you want to boot from the HDD. If the SSD becomes unbootable for some reason, then you can fall back on switching to the HDD to boot from in UEFI firmware and the boot files in it's own EFI System Partition will already be there.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  3.    28 Nov 2017 #3

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    The best way to do it to ensure that you have boot files present on the HDD as well as the install of Windows 10 is to wipe the hard drive, create an EFI System Partition (usually 150 MB), create an NTFS partition to hold the OS. Then use the DISM /apply-image command to put the OS on the NTFS partition, then use the bcdboot command to establish the boot files on the manually created EFI System Partition. You can also use the bcdboot command to add the second OS to the boot menu on the SSD so you don't have to mess with switching boot devices in UEFI firmware every time you want to boot from the HDD. If the SSD becomes unbootable for some reason, then you can fall back on switching to the HDD to boot from in UEFI firmware and the boot files in it's own EFI System Partition will already be there.
    Thanks for the quick reply. I am afraid that coming from a win 7 computer for the last 7 plus years where everything has been relatively easy and hardly tech cringing your reply has gone somewhat above my pay grade and I am not sure or I just do not understand the steps you have outlined. Should you have the time and inclination over the next few days could you kindly dumb down the steps for me or point me in another direction where I might be able to review in simpler terms what you recommend. I don't suppose there is an outline on line giving detailed info on the various steps you have mentioned. For instance your first sentence, "as well as the install of Windows 10 is to wipe the hard drive..." I am not sure if you are now referring to the SSD drive or still talking about the blank 500GB HDD and then sorry but I just do not understand what you mean when you say"create an EFI System Partition (usually 150 MB), create an NTFS partition to hold the OS. Then use the DISM /apply-image command to put the OS on the NTFS partition, then use the bcdboot command to establish the boot files on the manually created EFI System Partition."Thanks so much.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    28 Nov 2017 #4

    Actually, let's do it an easier way. You mentioned the Media Creation Tool. So I am going to assume that you made a USB flash drive for Windows 10 with the Media Creation Tool. We'll start with the computer booting into Windows 10 from the SSD. Open a Windows PowerShell. In the PowerShell window run diskpart. Answer the UAC prompt that appears with yes, and a black command prompt window will open running diskpart. In that window run: list disk

    Your SSD should be disk 0 and the HDD should be disk 1. In the commands below make sure you use the disk number for the HDD and not the SSD! I am only assuming the HDD is disk 1. You'll have to look at the capacities listed to match which drive is which number.

    select disk 1 <-note make sure to use the number for the HDD!
    clean <-note this will wipe the selected disk!
    convert gpt
    create part EFI size=150
    format fs=fat32 quick
    assign letter=t
    exit
    exit

    Do not shutdown the computer - just insert the Windows 10 USB flash drive you created with the Media Creation Tool. In Windows Explorer, navigate to the Sources folder on the USB flash drive. In the Sources folder, double click on setup.exe to run it. You should now start seeing the standard Windows 10 installation screens. Skip entering a product key if asked - link towards the bottom that says "I don't have product key". You might not be asked for a product key and that's fine. When you get to the window that asks if you want to upgrade or do a custom install, select custom install.

    On the next window after custom install, select the unallocated space on the HDD and click next. When the computer restarts, if you get the very first Windows setup screen again, the computer booted from the USB flash drive, just remove it and restart the computer. You should be set up with a dual booting menu, one will be Windows on the SSD and the other will be the Windows on the HDD. Go through the setup procedure on the HDD. Once you get everything going dual booting, you will need to add the boot files to the EFI system partition on the HDD you created with diskpart. I'll write that out in a bit.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    29 Nov 2017 #5

    Thanks once again for getting back to me.

    >Actually, let's do it an easier way.

    : )

    >
    You mentioned the Media Creation Tool. So I am going to assume that you made a USB flash drive for Windows 10 with the Media Creation Tool.

    I know how to do this since I did it once before a year or so ago but I never used it. Just wanted to see how the procedure went. My notebook is not scheduled to arrive until Dec 13th so I an going to wait till then to create a new USB fresh install of Win 10 using the creation tool.

    >
    In the PowerShell window run diskpart.

    Yes! I have used diskpart before when troubleshooting of all things a faulty USB drive.
    convert gpt
    create part EFI size=150
    format fs=fat32 quick
    assign letter=t

    I am curious if you do not mind. Why am I converting to gpt? Is it because the standard MBR is associated with the older BIOS and UEFI is the new kid on the block or is it just because UEFI can have more partitions. Also I thought that gpt was used for hard drives greater then 2TB where as the internal hard drive is only 500GB. Also why format fat32 and not NTFS since I am assuming that the SSD will come formatted NTFS or am I reading this all wrong and the 500GB hard drive is in fact or will be formatted as NTFS and you are just talking about the small 150MB EFI system partition which needs to be fat32. And assigning it drive letter "T" that's just giving it a drive letter very far down the food chain so that it ostensibly will not interfere with anything else, right?

    >Once you get everything going dual booting, you will need to add the boot files to the EFI system partition on the HDD you created with diskpart. I'll write that out in a bit.

    Thanks again and I look forward to the additional help that you plan to write out. No rush since as I mentioned notebook is not getting here until mid Dec. Once again thanks for the help and in particular dumbing this down for me. I still would like to understand what you originally wrote. Any homework links that I can read up on that talks about the way you first explained it!


      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    29 Nov 2017 #6

    You are converting to GPT because that is the partitioning type that UEFI boots from. That is also why you format the small EFI System partition as FAT32, because that is what UEFI normally boots from. The 2TB limit of MBR has nothing to do with the reasons we are using GPT and FAT32. The partition that the Windows installer will create to hold the OS will be NTFS. I assign drive letter T: for temporary. And yes, it shouldn't interfere with drive letters for USB flash drives or DVDs. The drive letter is only required for the BCDBOOT command to access the partition, which is what we will use to make sure that boot files get written to the HDD to make it bootable by itself. After we are done with that, we can remove the drive letter from the EFI System partition.

    Also, the EFI System partition will only have drive letter T: when booted into the OS that we assigned it with, which will be on the SSD. Boot from the new Windows installed on the HDD and the EFI System partition won't have a drive letter - unless it specifically assign it one from that OS. There will also be a FAT32 EFI System partition on the SSD which won't have a drive letter. But when you run setup.exe from within that OS, the Windows installer should just add the new Windows to the already existing boot files on the SSD.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  7.    29 Nov 2017 #7

    Once again thanks for the instructions and clarifications and prompt reply. I am going to read everything you wrote again just so that I have everything clear in my head. I believe at some other point the only thing left is when you get the time you were going to give me some additional info but I believe that will come after I have successfully followed the instructions and I have dual booting working properly:

    "Once you get everything going dual booting, you will need to add the boot files to the EFI system partition on the HDD you created with diskpart. I'll write that out in a bit."

    One last quick question when I get the machine I was going to run windows update depending upon whether or not there have been any problems during the past week as well as checking to see if there is a bios update as well as driver updates and maybe install an AV etc. You think I should wait on any changes to the system on the SSD and just get the dual booting situation out of the way first? If I had to guess I think that maybe I should make sure the bios is current as well as other drivers before installing win 10 on the HDD. I was also going to install a retail copy of Acronis True Image and clone the SSD to an external USB drive before making any changes in addition I really do not know if any info is going to be on the HDD when it arrives but if there is I was going to back that all up first before installing the new OS. Thanks again.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    29 Nov 2017 #8

    phaedruspress said: View Post
    One last quick question when I get the machine I was going to run windows update depending upon whether or not there have been any problems during the past week as well as checking to see if there is a bios update as well as driver updates and maybe install an AV etc. You think I should wait on any changes to the system on the SSD and just get the dual booting situation out of the way first? If I had to guess I think that maybe I should make sure the bios is current as well as other drivers before installing win 10 on the HDD. I was also going to install a retail copy of Acronis True Image and clone the SSD to an external USB drive before making any changes in addition I really do not know if any info is going to be on the HDD when it arrives but if there is I was going to back that all up first before installing the new OS. Thanks again.[/COLOR]
    It won't matter if you update the OS on the SSD first or not, since the HDD Windows is going to be a clean install. I would use Macrium Reflect Free instead of buying Acronis True Image. I also have not installed any third party anti-anything software in over a decade and have had no issues with virus/malware other than the occasional attack of persistent adware scripts which are wiped out with a simple temporary file cleaning.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  9.    07 Dec 2017 #9

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    Once you get everything going dual booting, you will need to add the boot files to the EFI system partition on the HDD you created with diskpart. I'll write that out in a bit.
    Hi. The new computer arrives tomorrow unless it is delayed and one of the first things I am going to do is go with dual booting the HDD after a fresh install of win 10 along with the already installed win 10 OS on the SSD. I wanted to follow up and ask what additional info (see above) you were going to help me with after I (hopefully) succeed with the dual boot. Also just to clarify after I create the small EFI partition and then I go to install the fresh OS from the USB stick I am going to now see two partitions on the HDD. The newly created EFI as well as a "potential" second partition consisting of a whole bunch of allocated space, right? And all of that un-allocated space has already been converted to gpt so I am good to go. Have I got this right? Thanks so much.

    select disk 1 <-note make sure to use the number for the HDD!
    clean <-note this will wipe the selected disk!
    convert gpt
    create part EFI size=150
    format fs=fat32 quick
    assign letter=t
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 

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