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  1.    06 Jun 2017 #1
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 7
    Windows 10 Pro X64

    First-time using an SSD drive for Windows 10 x64...


    Dear Win10 Forum:

    Dave C here, and I haven't been at this forum for quite some time...my previous Win 10 x64 install was hampered through January of this year, by what I found out (sadly) were defective Seagate 250 GB hard drives I HAD wanted to use for my Win10 x64-driven home CAD desktop platform. To try getting it back into running shape, I felt that going for an SSD drive was going to be a smart way of updating my PC to have a proper way of installing Win 10 x64 and my applications (AutoCAD & DesignCAD, and other graphics programs like CorelDRAW) with only one hard drive...this time, a Western Digital (abbreviated as "WD") 300 GB capacity SATA drive...solely for storage of my data files.

    The current hardware manifest on that "CAD desktop" is as follows:

    * Biostar A85S3 v.6.1 motherboard
    * AMD A8-6600K CPU
    * Kingston Hyper-X 16 GB RAM
    * Nvidia Quadro K620 workstation video card w/2 GB video RAM
    * Pioneer CD-RW/DVD-RW/Blu-Ray (BD-RE) "tri-mode" recordable/rewriteable removable media drive
    * Adaptec 29320LPE SCSI card for running HP Scanjet 3C/4C flatbed scanner (using Adaptec's Win-7 X64 driver for that card, works great with Hamrick's "ScanVue" software)

    ...with a new Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB capacity SSD drive for the Win-10 install, meant to be split into an approximately 200-250 GB C:\ drive just for the Win-10 X64 install, and a 250-300 GB D:\ drive for all my applications software (depending how much space I allocate for the C:\ drive, of course).

    After reading at MiniTools' website page for how best to use their always-useful Partition Wizard software, their page for "How to Get Best Performance from SSD in Windows 10/8/8.1/7" had an item that recommended setting the motherboard's BIOS "SATA Configuration" parameter to "ACHI" to enable my mobo's onboard "Advanced Host Controlled Interface" setting for its half-dozen SATA ports...it's apparently a "global" setting for that parameter, meaning all six SATA ports get the setting changed all at once. That's been done now, but I'm also writing in reference to the "advanced menu" in the BIOS, and especially its "network stack" and "compatibility support module" (hereafter acronym-med "CSM") settings.

    Back in the winter of 2014-15 when I first set up the Biostar mobo in that system with help from the mobo firm's available tech assistance (apparently that's now a "thing of the past") I was advised to disable the UEFI setting for the network stack altogether, and then set up the boot menu's BIOS "CSM parameters" as follows...

    * Boot Option Filter > to "UEFI & Legacy"
    * Launch PXE OpROM Policy > to "Legacy Only"
    * Launch Storage OpROM Policy > to "Legacy Only"
    * Launch Video OpROM Policy > to "Legacy Only"
    * Other PCI Device ROM Priority > to "Legacy OpROM".

    The choices for options on each of these five settings goes like this:

    The Boot Option Filter could also be set for "UEFI Only" and "Legacy Only", besides its "UEFI & Legacy" setting.
    The launchers for the PXE, storage and video OpROM policies could also be set for "UEFI Only" and "Do Not Launch", besides its "Legacy Only" setting.
    The "Other PCI Device ROM Priority" setting could also be set for a "UEFI OpROM" setting, besides its "Legacy OpROM" setting.

    Now, where I'm permanently avoiding the use of hard drives PERIOD for installing and using Windows 10 x64 and my applications, by using the Samsung 500 GB SSD drive, how many of these above five settings should be changed to suit making it into a fully-UEFI compliant desktop (or at least as much as possible), especially where I'll be using an SSD drive for operating system and applications installation, and have some serious degree of hope that I'll get a full-blown Windows 10 x64 install that can work from the new Samsung SSD drive with the minimum of fuss?

    The WD 300 GB hard drive for data-only storage IS another matter...will it have to be a GPT-style hard disk (easily convertible from an MBR volume using Partition WIzard) or can it be left as an MBR-style volume?

    I sincerely apologise for this being a BIT long-winded...where Biostar's tech line is something I'd most likely have to call early around noontime in the EST time zone (to get Biostar at 9 am) to even get an answer...and that's IF I can even phone them at all any longer...I felt that writing a thread at our forum concerning my setup situation, MIGHT be able to get to the right answers I'd need with a bit more certainty.

    Thanks in advance, and Yours Sincerely,

    DaveC from New England
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  2.    06 Jun 2017 #2
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,419
    Windows 10 Pro

    Boot Option Filter > UEFI Only
    Launch PXE OpROM Policy > Do not launch
    Launch Storage OpROM Policy > Do not launch
    Launch Video OpROM Policy > Do not launch
    Other PCI Device ROM Priority > UEFI OpROM

    If the 300 GB HDD has data on it already, you can just leave it as MBR. If it does not have data on it, then I would repartition it with GPT.

    What are you installing Windows 10 from? USB flash drive or DVD? The USB flash drive should be formatted as FAT32, not NTFS in order to boot in UEFI mode. The FAT32 partition on the USB flash drive should also be marked "Active" to make it compatible with legacy BIOS - that will not affect it booting UEFI mode, it will just make it more universal.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    08 Jun 2017 #3
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 7
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Thread Starter

    I'd have to guess that "OpROM" is a contraction of "Option ROM"...


    Dear NavyLCDR:

    Dave C here once again - I hope to have the time to actually get Win10 X64 going into my "prime PC" sometime later next week, as I'm the main caretaker for my senior-age mother here at home...so I DO have to plan everything with consideration for the times that she needs some help. There's also the need to finally attempt the recovery of my latest data (CAD drawings, documents, photos, etc) from the "sick Seagate" 250 GB SATA hard drive that's held them since January of this year, but at the very least, I have recovered the earlier versions of most all of those data files, with their most recent file-date being from the late winter of 2015.

    Honestly, until I read through this page at Wikipedia, I simply wasn't certain what an "OpROM" was, as for that quintet of settings I wrote about, I could readily understand why the "boot option filter" might be best set for "UEFI Only" as you'd recommended. That Wikipedia page did infer what the "Launch PXE OpROM Policy" was in my CAD PC's BIOS settings, as a "network boot ROM"-related parameter...you seem to also infer, through also setting to a "Do Not Launch" setting apiece, that the "Launch Storage OpROM Policy" and "Launch Video OpROM Policy" also should get that :do not launch" setting option locked-in as well, for a usable setup with the SSD drive. Are those two last-mentioned parameters also "network related" as well, and as I'm going to once again be using a standalone Win10 X64 PC, those would be best off being left "un-launched" as recommended? And, for that last "Other PCI Device ROM Priority", again using solely the UEFI setting seems like an understandable choice, much like the first "boot option filter" parameter was. Where I DO have a SCSI card (the Adaptec 29320LPE) in my system to run perfectly-operating HP Scanjet flatbed scanners (one each of Scanjet 3C and 4C, so I've got a "spare" if needed), I'm hoping that none of those "do not launch" and "UEFI" choices shuts those down from operating, once everything's ready to do the Win10 x64 install on my SSD.

    I've only been using the Win 10 X64 DVD for the install, and since I have to "compute on a budget", I couldn't really attempt dedicating a flash drive for a Win 10 install...any flash drives I have are only used for "digital scratchpads", or for backup media to get data onto a new hard drive. Also, I DO have a pair of identical Western Digital 300 GB SATA hard disks, but since MiniTool Partition Wizard CAN convert an MBR-format disk into a GPT one as a core ability it's got, perhaps it's something I may not to have to worry about...unless it could be better to use my second, still untouched WD 300 GB hard disk as a GPT disk from the beginning.

    Thanks for your help so far, and it's just that matter of patiently finding the right period of uninterrupted time here at home to first get the main data recovery task done, and then it's on to doing the BIOS-settings changes you advised me about, installing the SSD, and getting Win10 X64 on there.

    Thanks again and Yours Sincerely,

    DaveC....!!
    Last edited by DaveC; 09 Jun 2017 at 10:38.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    23 Jul 2017 #4
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 7
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Thread Starter

    Well, HERE are how things worked out so far...


    Dear NavyLCDR:

    DaveC here once more...so far, the Windows 10 X64 install seemed to want to do a "simple" method of install, but using the BIOS settings you recommended did NOT go well for me!

    The "Advanced Host Controller Interface" (AHCI) mode for my SATA ports went quite well to start with, but as any single one of the trio of "OpROM Policy" setting choices you recommended setting to "UEFI Only" - each and every one of which was done, "one-at-a-time" to see what would happen - simply caused me to be "locked-out" of my PC altogether in each and every case, without even a chance to see the main "BIOS splash" page. Each and every one of those attempts to set any of the "OpROM policies" to "UEFI Only" required a shutdown of the system following the "BIOS lockout" condition, before having to use the CMOS reset jumper while it was turned off, to return the BIOS to its "factory standard" settings. In short, "here's how that quintet" of settings you recommended worked for me...

    Boot Option Filter > UEFI Only = set to "UEFI & Legacy", otherwise a tiny screen display
    Launch PXE OpROM Policy > Do not launch = DOES NOT WORK (BIOS Lockout, as mentioned in text)
    Launch Storage OpROM Policy > Do not launch = DOES NOT WORK (BIOS Lockout, as mentioned in text)
    Launch Video OpROM Policy > Do not launch = DOES NOT WORK (BIOS Lockout, as mentioned in text)
    Other PCI Device ROM Priority > UEFI OpROM = set to "Legacy Only", otherwise a tiny screen display

    The second through fourth settings resulted in the aforementioned "BIOS Lockout" condition's blank, dark screen, only correctable with a shutdown and CMOS jumper reset to factory settings...engaging either of the first OR fifth options you'd mentioned, curiously enough, shrank the screen so much that one might think that my 1200 pixel high, widescreen monitor had ONLY a "miniaturized" version of a 1980s-era, 320 x 200 CGI display on it, shrunken dramatically to a very small size in the very center of an otherwise dark-screened display.

    So, in checking HOW my "working" copy of Win 10 x64 installed on my SSD, here's the display I got on my copy of Partition Wizard, saved with Corel Capture X7...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Partition Wizard Disk Storage Screencap.jpg 
Views:	117 
Size:	150.4 KB 
ID:	145250

    ...and, very plainly, they're ALL "MBR" style storage volumes.

    Now as the BIOS date for my PC was way back on April 18, 2013, some around here might suggest that I upgrade the BIOS, with the available BIOS dates for my motherboard shown below as found on Biostar's website...annotation shown indicates my current installed BIOS level...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ANNOTATED BIOS Upgrade Download Screencap.jpg 
Views:	118 
Size:	82.4 KB 
ID:	145251

    But, as this IS my only really "close-to-current" motherboard installation that's actually working in my current CAD-platform desktop PC, I'd dread wrecking it from a bad BIOS upgrade session. I've never upgraded a motherboard BIOS before, and I've been told there are ALL sorts of pitfalls when doing anything that major to a motherboard.

    Getting a newer Biostar mobo (their motherboards have always had ALL sorts of interfaces that other manufacturers have left behind...a decent condition for a home user) for something that might be much more likely to BE "more UEFI-compliant" simply is not in my budget for at least another four-to-six months, so upgrading the BIOS on my existing desktop is not an option at this time, due to the risk of losing everything from a botched upgrade.

    Am I simply better off "leaving everything alone", at least until I can get some HELP-in-person (a local PC person, Geek Squad, "whomever") beside me to do such an upgrade, or should I expect to get a newer Biostar-made AMD motherboard ( I. DO. NOT. USE. INTEL-made. CPUs.) to get everything up to operating at an acceptable "UEFI-standard?"

    Thanks in advance,
    DaveC
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  5.    23 Jul 2017 #5
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,419
    Windows 10 Pro

    What source were you attempting to install Windows 10 from? Your current Windows 10 installation is not compatible with UEFI booting. I suspect that the Windows 10 installation media you used was probably a USB flash drive created with a program called Rufus? If the USB flash drive used to install Windows 10 from is not UEFI compatible, then it will install on the SSD in the same format which is also not compatible with UEFI.

    In your setup of small physical drives and less than 4 partitions on each drive, it really won't make that much difference. By not being able to set the UEFI (bios) to boot from only the SSD in UEFI mode and nothing else, you are maybe adding an extra one or two seconds of boot time. The AHCI setting is really the critical one to improve overall performance once the computer is booted into Windows.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  6.    23 Jul 2017 #6
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Central Florida
    Posts : 346
    Win 7 Pro/32, Win 10 Pro/64/32

    Dave,
    Just a tip from an old tech.....
    If you ever start having weird problems, deep six the Kingston RAM. They are well known in the memory business to be junk dealers.
    They will buy second grade chips from Major chip makers like Micron, and put them on their own boards. They may work OK at first and then fail later on. I won't touch anything from Kingston with a ten foot pole!
    Just sayin'

    TechnoMage
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  7.    24 Jul 2017 #7
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 7
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Thread Starter

    Thanks for the help "so far"...I'll admit I forgot "a thing or two"...


    Dear NavyLCDR & TechnoMage:

    Dave C here once again...thank you for the advice so far!

    For NavyLCDR, I'm just wondering, why are you advocating so heavily (if I'm mistaken, I sincerely apologize) for only using a USB-style thumb drive for installing 64-bit Windows 10? As I'm disabled and only live on a fixed income, I'm not really the sort of person who would normally get a USB drive for the sole purpose of placing my own copy of Windows 10 x64 on it for installation purposes...it's much easier for me to use the DVD it originally came on, with my Pioneer CD-RW/DVD-RW/BD-RE "tri-mode" drive handling the install of Win-10 X64.

    For TechnoMage, after reading your post concerning the likelihood of the Kingston memory units possibly being "flaky" in their behavior, I did a search at Newegg last Sunday for their page for the type/speed of memory I'm currently using in my Biostar A85S3 mobo, and if Kingston indeed HAS such a "checkered" history of not being quite as up-to-spec as they should be, there ARE alternatives, especially from the Corsair firm in the same 16GB capacity AND speed/format as the Kingston units I'm using now, that don't seem to be badly priced at all for an eventual purchase, likely between now and the holidays.

    I WILL admit that I forgot to mention in my earlier posts, that my Biostar A85S3 mobo DOES have a boot selection screen that can be bought up by, I think, pressing the "F9" key while the BIOS "splash screen" comes on during a bootup. When I did an earlier install of Windows 10 X64 earlier in 2016, when I still had an all-hard disk storage setup on my PC (the two earlier, SATA-3 Seagate 250 GB drives that seemingly "went south" on me), I DO distinctly remember seeing a UEFI boot option existing for the Pioneer drive on that boot selection screen. So, if I was to do a much more "meticulous" future install of Win10 X64 from its original DVD disk the next time it's needed, perhaps after I get whatever memory brand I'd need to get to take the place of the "possibly-questionable" Kingston DIMM units, I'd be repeatedly checking that "boot manager" screen to look for hints of the UEFI protocol coming up on it, especially if it's on an appropriate drive device in the listing.

    There IS one more thing I would like to address about my current Win-10 X64 install...it's not easily auto-loading up any more MS WIndows 10 OS updates than the ones it was able to upload, when I first installed it on one of my Samsung SSD drive volumes (the 225 GB volume for "C:")...could that be a problem caused by an unintentionally mistake-prone install procedure? Also, for NavyLCDR again, IF a USB flash drive is really a preferable manner to install Windows 10 X64 on a PC, what size of USB drive should I be looking at purchasing for the purpose of using it for doing the Win-10 install?

    Again, I apologize for any "newbie-sounding" questions I might be posing in this reply...that's as I've always thought, that the only truly "silly question" is the one that never gets asked in the first place.

    Thanks again in advance,
    and Yours Sincerely,

    Dave C....!!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  8.    24 Jul 2017 #8
    Join Date : Jul 2015
    Posts : 9,419
    Windows 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
    Dear NavyLCDR & TechnoMage:

    Dave C here once again...thank you for the advice so far!

    For NavyLCDR, I'm just wondering, why are you advocating so heavily (if I'm mistaken, I sincerely apologize) for only using a USB-style thumb drive for installing 64-bit Windows 10? As I'm disabled and only live on a fixed income, I'm not really the sort of person who would normally get a USB drive for the sole purpose of placing my own copy of Windows 10 x64 on it for installation purposes...it's much easier for me to use the DVD it originally came on, with my Pioneer CD-RW/DVD-RW/BD-RE "tri-mode" drive handling the install of Win-10 X64.in, I apologize for any "newbie-sounding" questions I might be posing in this reply...that's as I've always thought, that the only truly "silly question" is the one that never gets asked in the first place.

    There IS one more thing I would like to address about my current Win-10 X64 install...it's not easily auto-loading up any more MS WIndows 10 OS updates than the ones it was able to upload, when I first installed it on one of my Samsung SSD drive volumes (the 225 GB volume for "C:")...could that be a problem caused by an unintentionally mistake-prone install procedure? Also, for NavyLCDR again, IF a USB flash drive is really a preferable manner to install Windows 10 X64 on a PC, what size of USB drive should I be looking at purchasing for the purpose of using it for doing the Win-10 install?

    Agaadvance,
    and Yours Sincerely,

    Dave C....!!
    A 16GB USB flash drive is between $5 and $8 at Office Depot/Office Max. Whenever a new major upgrade of Windows 10 comes out (November Update, Anniversary Update, Creator's Update), Microsoft also makes available the ISO file for it. So with the USB flash drive, you can keep it up to date. The original DVD does not change. So, let's say you have the original DVD of the original build 10240 of Windows. One of the first updates that is going to happen is the 4 GB or so download of Creator's Update and the anywhere from 45 minutes to 2-3 hours upgrade process. Then after that, it is still going to pull the latest cumulative update for that build. If you keep your flash drive current with the latest ISO file from Microsoft then you start off everything by installing nearly the most recent Windows 10 right from the start and you only have the latest cumulative update to download and install, which is much less intensive than a major upgrade update.

    Also, if you want a very cool recovery drive, you can modify the flash drive to boot into Kyhi's Recovery Tools and have a lot more troubleshooting and recovery tools available, in addition to maintaining the ability to do a clean install of Windows 10 from it:
    Windows 10 Recovery Tools - Bootable Rescue Disk - Windows 10 Forums
    (read my quotes in the middle of the OP on that thread).

    Also, you will probably have room on the flash drive to store hardware drivers for your computer if you want to. In addition, DVD-Rs and DVD-RWs are more susceptible to write errors during the burn process and read errors during the install.

    It's a less than $10 one time investment that has proven to be more reliable than DVDs in the past, faster install time, you can keep it up to date with the latest major build of Windows 10 requiring less updating after install, and you can put other files on it in addition to the Windows 10 install files.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  9.    26 Aug 2017 #9
    Join Date : Jul 2016
    Posts : 7
    Windows 10 Pro X64
    Thread Starter

    Been a BIT busy...good to get back to this thread!


    Dear NavyLCDR:

    Dave C here once more - since I've had to be a bit busier with "caretaking more than usual" for my senior-age mother recently, I've had to be away from this thread for a bit longer than planned.

    From some PM'ed help from TechnoMage, it came up that his advice for a better brand of memory to get for my motherboard would be to get Crucial's functional equal to the Kingston memory I'm running currently. Two of those would have to be purchased to equal the pair of Kingston 8 GB DIMMs in my Biostar A85S3 mobo, but it looks that those new Crucial DIMMS will have to be saved for, to be able to get those before Halloween.

    For NavyLCDR, I was able to get a pair of 16 GB USB-3 flash drives of the "Emtec" brand name at my local Staples store, as there are hardly any OfficeMax/Office Depot stores south of Boston...Staples stores are much MORE common around here in Metro Boston MA, and the Emtec 16GB flash drives I bought can easily be "keychained" for safe carrying and storage.

    As I assess HOW my latest Win-10 X64 OS installation only wanted to install as a "basic" or "simple" manner, I'd have to suppose that, with only two "lettered", ≈ 250 GB capacity drive volumes (C:\ & D:\) placed on the 500 GB-capacity Samsung 850 EVO SSD (with the small "special volume" for Win-10 X64 in front of everything else on the Samsung), and the Western Digital 300 GB "E:" hard drive being the ONLY "fixed" drives in my PC, my earlier belief in the whole idea of NEEDING the UEFI manner of interfacing with 'em is an unnecessarily complicating choice, and using the drive devices I have, strictly as "master boot record" drives, with the already-functioning AHCI interface on my Biostar mobo in use and running flawlessly itself, SHOULD function quite well for my needs, both short and long-term.

    Now for placing a Win-10 x64 ISO ON one of those Emtec drives, Microsoft DOES have their own page on using an ISO file to refresh a Windows install with. Also, as my copy of Windows 10 x64 was purchased very shortly (only about a month, I'd have to guess) after it first became available on DVD, later in 2015, I'd HAVE to suppose that it has the "build number 10240" you said it should have...but I'm curious, HOW can I definitively find out what exact build number my current Win-10 X64 install has on it?

    Also, when I went over to "Kyhi's" page that you mentioned in your most recent reply, I'll admit that I was a bit "warmed over" when I saw him using terms like "Win-10PE" and "Win-10PESE"...those admittedly "eye-glazing" terms are not ones I'm used to seeing, and in the true spirit of someone who firmly believes that "the only silly question is the one that never gets asked", and also as I'm not an "I.T.-pro" by anyone's measure, exactly WHAT is Kyhi getting at with the "PE" and "PESE" terms?

    As EVERYTHING I do with PC hardware has to be done in a carefully "paced" manner due to a fixed, disability-level limited income, at least where I've now got some apparently usable 16 GB USB drives for the task...

    ...I simply want to get my copy of Win-10 X64 working better/properly, and do it without disturbing my existing installs in the copy of Win-10 X64 I'm running now, IF at all possible.

    Thanks in advance and Yours Sincerely,

    Dave C....!!
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  10.    27 Aug 2017 #10
    Join Date : Dec 2013
    Portsmouth Hampshire
    Posts : 1,837
    Windows 10 x86 14383 Insider Pro and Core 10240

    Just butting in but PE is simply "Preinstallation Environment" and the SE, I think, is Special Edition. WinPE is the cut down version of Windows used to run Windows Setup (hence Preinstallation), and it also contributes much of the functionality to the Windows Recovery Environment or Win RE which may be used to fix broken Windows.

    WinPE SE originates from developers based here.
      My ComputersSystem Spec

 
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