Clean Installation - Recovery Partition Position

fdegrove · 30 Apr 2016

Hi,

Lmbrt said:

May I draw your attention upon the fact that in the Windows 8/8.1 environment there were, in fact, two partitions deputed to recovery:
- WinRE at the beginning (of the partition list, i.e. the first one).
- Recovery at the end (of the partition list, i.e. the last one).
(Source: Recommended UEFI-Based Disk-Partition Configurations, Microsoft)

But this not the case in Windows 10 where there is only one Recovery partition (if you have two that is probably because you perform an Upgrade and not a clean installation) that:
A- Windows Setup puts de facto at the beginning.
B- UEFI/GPT-based hard drive partitions (Microsoft) recommends to put at the end.

To put it bluntly: who's right? Microsoft's right or left hand?

Both hands actually. It doesn't really matter where you or Windows itself puts it for as long as Windows knows where it is.

I usually let Windows do what it feels like during set up like Navy LCDR suggests. Most of the time I just leave my data partition on the disk (at the end physically) and leave the rest to Windows set up.
Windows will create all partitions itself and will invariably create the recovery partition in front of the Windows partition so the RE environment is created first just in case it's needed before Win Setup finishes the install.

The theory you find on the net is rather confusing for a non professional and is only needed ( and then some) for large roll outs using prepped images.

All in all, I'd say forget about the theory but avoid putting the RE partition behind the Windows partition IF you have another partition behind it.

In real life you hardly ever will have to touch it and the only reason I can see it could need more space than the 450Mb allocated to it is when using some encryption IIRC. I need to look that up if you want more detail. Either way, hardly relevant to us near mortals.

Cheers,

cereberus · 01 May 2016

Word Man said:

1) The article you reference in your OP is premised for creating and deploying systems with custom recovery images.

2) A clean Win10 install does not conform to that degree of flexibility but it does put the small WinRE partition up front.

3) you are still perfectly free to set up a recovery image of your own - if your PC manufacturer hasn't already provided a PBR image or, even if they had, if you wish to replace it with one of your own (custom) making.

It seems to me that what you compare as one versus two "recovery partitions" is really just not distinguishing the difference between the two.

WinRE is a much smaller and purposeful partition that MS has apparently deemed important enough to have up front in a kind of quasi-unassailable position (if I may call it that, being followed by the EFI system partition and the MSR, then the OS) for the purpose of supporting and serving the average user with advanced boot and troubleshooting options.

The second "recovery partition", out at the end is, to me, for a distinctly different purpose, i.e., as a mere place holder or protected storage location for a recovery image - whether it be of your own making or the OEM's (this position taken by OEM is seen quite often at this forum, most notably for Dell and HP machines, probably others I can't recall) - you may or may not wish to have one and, to less interested users, its presence may or may not be noted entirely or cared about - until it's needed.

Above is just my attempt at rationalizing the Win10 install default partitioning (which, obviously, MS has decided to exclude a "recovery image partition" from in favor of the manufacturer or the user making use of that position) which has only a WinRE partition which they chose to put first. I will note, however, that I've seen both the WinRE tools AND the recovery image together in that last partition position - it could have been that these were originally Win8/8.1 systems upgraded to WIn10, not sure.

Windows 10 does not use recovery partitions as such. It actually reconstructs the OS from the protected winsnxs folders the the C drive.

For clarity, the 500 MB partition contains the software to reconstruct the OS.

As the winsnxs folders are well protected, even if the C drive gets quite corrupted,
Windows 10 can still rebuild the OS.

Delete that partition (without any additional oem partition) and you cannot reset your PC!

Actually I deliberately deleted it on my tablet so I could use the space (relying on a clean install or a Macrium Image Restore).

From a positional viewpoint, it really makes no difference. It is just easier to reclaim the space if you delete it, if it is at the end of the drive.

The only real function of an additional oem recovery partition in Windows 10 is to reinstall all the bloatware that typically comes with OEM installs, although occasionally, it may contain special drivers not in the standard OS.

It is always a good plan to export drivers just in case e.g. when doing a reset.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/export...ing-powershell.

Word Man · 01 May 2016

cereberus said:

Windows 10 does not use recovery partitions as such. It actually reconstructs the OS from the protected winsnxs folders the the C drive.

For clarity, the 500 MB partition contains the software to reconstruct the OS.

As the winsnxs folders are well protected, even if the C drive gets quite corrupted,
Windows 10 can still rebuild the OS.

Delete that partition (without any additional oem partition) and you cannot reset your PC!

Actually I deliberately deleted it on my tablet so I could use the space (relying on a clean install or a Macrium Image Restore).

From a positional viewpoint, it really makes no difference. It is just easier to reclaim the space if you delete it, if it is at the end of the drive.

The only real function of an additional oem recovery partition in Windows 10 is to reinstall all the bloatware that typically comes with OEM installs, although occasionally, it may contain special drivers not in the standard OS.

It is always a good plan to export drivers just in case e.g. when doing a reset.

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/export...ng-powershell.

Cereberus - why post all this as a response to what I posted? I made no claim that Windows 10 uses "recovery partitions as such". If I want to make Dell recovery media before I blow away my Dell PBR partition and preserve the option to go back to an out of the box "crapware" state, that's my business and a choice that any individual user should make on their own, whether or not I or they regard it as containing crapware or bloatware.

I was trying to contribute food for thought to satisfy the OP's inquiry.

Did I post some kind of misinformation?

Kyhi · 01 May 2016

For clarity, the 500 MB partition contains the software to reconstruct the OS.

The Partition contains WinRE on a clean Installation it is just the Basic Recovery Options, as we all know it...

But on an OEM system it could contain a custom WinRE, which may included drivers needed for Touch Screens and onscreen keyboard... As well as a few other drivers..

It is always best to create an OEM Recovery Drive (Disk) before doing anything... Because someday you will wish you Had...

cereberus · 02 May 2016

Word Man said:

Cereberus - why post all this as a response to what I posted? I made no claim that Windows 10 uses "recovery partitions as such". If I want to make Dell recovery media before I blow away my Dell PBR partition and preserve the option to go back to an out of the box "crapware" state, that's my business and a choice that any individual user should make on their own, whether or not I or they regard it as containing crapware or bloatware.

I was trying to contribute food for thought to satisfy the OP's inquiry.

Did I post some kind of misinformation?

No - I was just adding some extra information for information purposes only. To many users, it is not clear how the Windows 10 recovery partitions work.

You are indeed correct about decision to keep oem partitions.

Aplogies if I offended you unintentionally - certainly not my intent.

Have a nice day

.

Word Man · 02 May 2016

cereberus said:

No - I was just adding some extra information for information purposes only. To many users, it is not clear how the Windows 10 recovery partitions work.

You are indeed correct about decision to keep oem partitions.

Aplogies if I offended you unintentionally - certainly not my intent.

Have a nice day

.

OK, cereberus, thanks for responding to what was unfounded paranoia on my part. Maybe I was having a fragile day or the Chantix I'm using to help kick nicotine is making me paranoid. Sorry to have cluttered up the thread, folks...

cereberus · 02 May 2016

Kyhi said:

The Partition contains WinRE on a clean Installation it is just the Basic Recovery Options, as we all know it...

But on an OEM system it could contain a custom WinRE, which may included drivers needed for Touch Screens and onscreen keyboard... As well as a few other drivers..

It is always best to create an OEM Recovery Drive (Disk) before doing anything... Because someday you will wish you Had...

That is especially true for tablets with 8.1+Bing.

I always advise tablet/hybrid users to create a recovery drive as you say if 8.1+Bing as the standard 8.1 iso does often lack such drivers. I also advise exporting drivers in case a clean install of Windows 10 is needed. See link below.

More importantly, the standard iso will not be activated by an 8.1+Bing key and MS do not provide 8.1+Bing isos (You can only get it from tablet oem - that is the price user pays for effectively getting OS for free).

Fortunately that restriction no longer applies with Windows 10, but creating recovery and exporting drivers as a backup is still a really good plan.

http://woshub.com/how-to-export-driv...indows-8-1-u1/

Finally, I did quite a bit of testing with several tablets, and Macrium Reflect Free was the only tool I found that reliably backed up and restore Windows 8.1 or 10.

Many of the well known image tools could not handle the unusual 32bit UEFI installed used on many tablets. I freely admit I have not revisited my tests in the last 18 months, so I cannot say if other tools have been updated and work reliably.

The most spectacular failure came from the Windows own image tool (which hass not been updated for several years really!

cereberus · 02 May 2016

Word Man said:

OK, cereberus, thanks for responding to what was unfounded paranoia on my part. Maybe I was having a fragile day or the Chantix I'm using to help kick nicotine is making me paranoid. Sorry to have cluttered up the thread, folks...

We all have a bad hair day now and then

.

fdegrove · 02 May 2016

Hi,

Good info from all posters here.

For those who just want to know what drives their system has installed:

Admin prompt:

pnputil -e > %userprofile%/Desktop/Drivers.txt

This puts a simple list in basic text form on the desktop of the user.

Another way to export drivers:

Admin prompt:

Dism /online /export-driver /destination

:\Drivers

Replace D:\ with the drive letter of your choice and create the destination directory beforehand on there.

Cheers,

cereberus · 02 May 2016

fdegrove said:

Hi,

Good info from all posters here.

For those who just want to know what drives their system has installed:

Admin prompt:

pnputil -e > %userprofile%/Desktop/Drivers.txt

This puts a simple list in basic text form on the desktop of the user.

Another way to export drivers:

Admin prompt:

Dism /online /export-driver /destination

:\Drivers

Replace D:\ with the drive letter of your choice and create the destination directory beforehand on there.

Cheers,

That's funny the way the editor has interpreted D as a smiley - LOL