Windows 10: Ridiculous installation requirement

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  1.    08 Jan 2015 #61

    I doubt my comments here will dissuade you, as I find that most people with these opinions tend to have the opinion first, and then look for reasons to support it (usually based on misinformation as was the case here) rather than the other way around
    That is really a good observation.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  2. Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       08 Jan 2015 #62

    Guarantee? No such thing.
    2.Using the Outlook.com / Live.com / Hotmail.com / MSN.com web interface, only the MS Account using Microsoft hosted email can send, check and receive email messages. A third party MS Account can only send but not check or receive.

    You can setup your existing Microsoft hosted email account to pick up mail from third party services but that again is a totally different story.
    It must be the use of MSA when describing what we are discussing. I think I follow, but then I read it again and ??????????

    A MSA account cannot send or receive messages, it is not a messaging system.
    The messaging system associated with a MSA account can send and receive messages.
    Outlook.com can send and receive messages through a non-MS system if the external server is a POP3 server.

    You simply add an account (not import) and provide the server addresses, port numbers, security requirements, your login to the external server (user name and password)
    This is the same thing you have to do to set up any eMail client.
    The Outlook.com user interface cannot, however, manage the external system UI (move to folder, set flags, etc).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't know how to word it any other way. I think we are getting closer to understanding what each other is saying (maybe I'm just missing a point you've already made, maybe not)

    Will more words help? I ran out of words in post# 54.

    I'm not certain I have anything else to add that would be of any value to this discussion.

    This was very good - lots of input and detailed explanations.

    Thanks all

    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  3. Posts : 12,150
    Windows 10 Pro
       08 Jan 2015 #63

    This is starting to be ridiculous. Slarty, say what you want to, think what you want to, play with semantics as much as you want to, everything I have told is factual information.

    By default:

    MS Account using an MS email address, a secondary email or phone number is required when the account is created and security codes will be sent to this secondary email or phone number. MS Account using a third party email, a secondary email or phone number is not required, security codes will be sent to third party email in question.

    MS Account using an MS email address, emails can be sent, checked and received using Outlook.com wen interface. MS Account using third party email address, emails can be sent using Outlook.com web interface but not checked / received.

    Discussion from my part over, you very close to my ignore list.

    Kari
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  4.    08 Jan 2015 #64

    Mystere said: View Post
    ...You do not have to enable cookies either, though it can be a bit annoying if you do not because you will have to log in each time you revisit the site...
    The last time I tried to create an account so I could get Hot Mail, I was repeatedly blocked because I had my cookies blocked, even though I had allowed M$ cookies. I kept getting an error message that said I had to hae my cookies enabled to go any further.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  5.    09 Jan 2015 #65

    Lady Fitzgerald said: View Post
    Mystere said: View Post
    ...You do not have to enable cookies either, though it can be a bit annoying if you do not because you will have to log in each time you revisit the site...
    The last time I tried to create an account so I could get Hot Mail, I was repeatedly blocked because I had my cookies blocked, even though I had allowed M$ cookies. I kept getting an error message that said I had to hae my cookies enabled to go any further.
    Frankly, i'm surprised you can do much of anything without cookies enabled on the internet. Nearly every site requires them for authentication purposes.

    You can always enable them to create the account, the disable and delete your cookies afterwards.

    Cookies are not evil, certain kinds of cookies have privacy implications but wholesale cookie blocking is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  6.    09 Jan 2015 #66

    Mystere said: View Post
    Lady Fitzgerald said: View Post
    Mystere said: View Post
    ...You do not have to enable cookies either, though it can be a bit annoying if you do not because you will have to log in each time you revisit the site...
    The last time I tried to create an account so I could get Hot Mail, I was repeatedly blocked because I had my cookies blocked, even though I had allowed M$ cookies. I kept getting an error message that said I had to hae my cookies enabled to go any further.
    Frankly, i'm surprised you can do much of anything without cookies enabled on the internet. Nearly every site requires them for authentication purposes.

    You can always enable them to create the account, the disable and delete your cookies afterwards.

    Cookies are not evil, certain kinds of cookies have privacy implications but wholesale cookie blocking is throwing the baby out with the bath water.
    Actually, I have very little trouble doing things on the internet. I'm very aware that many cookies are beneficial (and I allow those) but most are just for snooping. I only have third party cookies blocked wholesale. All others are set to notify me when a site tries to put a cookie on my computer; I then can decide if I need that site's cookie or not (most of the time, I do not) and either accept the cookie or block it. There are a few sites that are completely anal and insist I have all cookies enabled. It's my bloody computer and I will be the one who determines what gets put on it so those sites can just get stuffed! I also eschew sites that insist on me letting their idiot cookie onto my computer just to browse them; those sites can also get stuffed!
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  7. Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3
       09 Jan 2015 #67

    Lady Fitzgerald said: View Post
    Actually, I have very little trouble doing things on the internet. I'm very aware that many cookies are beneficial (and I allow those) but most are just for snooping. I only have third party cookies blocked wholesale. All others are set to notify me when a site tries to put a cookie on my computer; I then can decide if I need that site's cookie or not (most of the time, I do not) and either accept the cookie or block it. There are a few sites that are completely anal and insist I have all cookies enabled. It's my bloody computer and I will be the one who determines what gets put on it so those sites can just get stuffed! I also eschew sites that insist on me letting their idiot cookie onto my computer just to browse them; those sites can also get stuffed!
    I had a similar experience very recently with Microsoft Advertising. I was either led to Microsoft personalized ad preferences when setting a MS Account or I was going though the PC Settings afterwards.

    The first option:
    Personalized ads in this browser On/Off
    worked fine
    The cookie would be deleted (I delete on exit) unless I bookmark Microsoft.com and enable

    Internet Options -> General tab -> Browsing history [Delete...] -> Preserve Favorites Website data

    Convoluted, but I have a method that manages cookies well enough to do banking without entering the required credentials every time or having to enter the 2nd level security (which would be sent via phone# on file - going to voice mail if I can't answer, or to an eMail address on file). Anyway, it's cumbersome, but it works. The added security is welcome, having to do all of that to preserve a cookie is not.

    The second option:
    Personalized ads wherever I use my Microsoft account
    Including Windows, Windows Phone, Xbox, & other devices. On/Off

    This is where it is similar to your experience LF.
    The default setting on the Privacy tab is Medium (Intern zone)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The only way I could turn off the 2nd Ad preference was to drop privacy to the lowest level.

    I declined to lower my privacy setting to set Advertising preferences.

    I prefer to manage my Advertising opt-outs here: Consumer Opt-out | NAI: Network Advertising Initiative
    Still cookie based, but I don't have to sacrifice privacy level for all cookies / all sites, I only need to allow the cookies for the Advertising giants - so they know I'm opting out. Opting out doesn't mean the end of ads in your browser, it means the end of targeted ads and the end of shared interests for targeted ads.


    I did submit feedback stating that if they are Microsoft Ads or go through Microsoft, then the cookie policy has to change. Those providing opt-outs have to comply with the default level requirements (MS only has control over it's own cookies or cookies that go through MS).

    I know this is a choice the user can decide to do or not do - I just find it odd that it is offered the way it is offered. Here ya go - you can opt out. Wait, you privacy level is too high.. still too high...ok now that you've disabled your privacy setting, you can opt out.

    I tried a few ways to make it work (adding sites to the secure site list, adding cookie overrides). In the end I gave up - it was far too much work to comply and maintain.

    Anyway, that's my experience with MS cookies. If someone has had a better experience and knows a few tips, please post them.

    Thanks,


    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

  8.    13 Jan 2015 #68

    I started out reading all of the posts in this thread but as I got father in I started just skimming though a bit. If I missed something or repost something already mentioned I'll apologize now. Being an MVP I have a LIVE ID and log in with a live ID. The e-mail address I use for my live ID is my ISP provided e-mail address. My live ID password and e-mail password are different. I see that screen in Windows 8 also. Sometimes I will turn on my other PC so I can get the code via e-mail. I don't own a cell phone, so a text message is not an option for me. Sometimes I just click the "I cannot do this right now", it's there so you can do it latter when you have access to your e-mail on that PC. You can still install, but some options are locked out. If I enter the code I can sync settings that were backed up to my Live ID/One drive. Stuff like your logon screen, colors, wallpaper, theme, etc. If I skip entering the code it sets up as a new PC. It also won't sync stuff like IE favorites and login credentials, the stuff it saves when you tell it to remember your login for this site. Some customization options are locked out too. Lock screen and account picture, I think. Eventually the Activation center will remind you that you need to verify your Identity on this PC. Once you do that, everything is unlocked and the One Drive sync is fully functional. There is more to One Drive than just file storage. If you go to the One Drive Sync settings you'll see what I mean. Personalization, App settings, Web browser, passwords. The two step authentication keeps somebody else from getting access to that info. The only time it has ever been an issue for me was when my ISP blocked the code e-mail for some reason. That was when the 10 preview came out. It only lasted a couple of days and just when I was about to call them the e-mails all showed up in my inbox. I have never done the setup as a local account with no Internet connection, not that I can remember anyway, so I'm not sure what screen options you get doing it that way. it sounds like quit a few do it that way or you would have noticed this screen long ago. Windows 8 has it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  9. Posts : 526
    W 7 desktop Home Premium 64 - OS
       15 Jan 2015 #69

    When I bought my Acer computer and set it up, I got very angry that I had to have a MS account. You spend $900. on a pc and can't even use without being tied to MS, it's like asking permission to use something I bought. I even called them and they said I had to. Grrrr......There was no option that I could find to do it later. I did luck out because for some reason it could not pick up my wifi so it told me to set up a local account. I did and had to put on a password, but immediately googled for a way to delete it after my PC was set up. I do not like passwords on my pc because as a newbie I got locked out of my own computer. It did not accept my password which was very simple and easy to remember and correct. HP would not help me get in, I guess because they were not sure I owned it.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 1,204
    Windows 7 Pro x64 Windows 10 Pro x64
       15 Jan 2015 #70

    You do not have to create a password for the local account, you just leave it blank, just as you don`t and shouldn`t create a password for any non work windows pc.

    The Microsoft account is just a minor inconveinence and nothing to worry about.

    Once you switch to the local account you are no longer tied to MS, as you say.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


 
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