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  1.    05 Jan 2015 #31
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,377
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    If I remember correctly win-8 wasn't much different with the Microsoft account thing so looks as though Microsoft is getting away with this whole Microsoft account priority thing,
    Can't say I like it either for many reasons Europe would likely file lawsuit over this type of hidden local account deal :/
    I've never seen a euro version of 8 though ?
      My ComputersSystem Spec
  2.    05 Jan 2015 #32
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    A Finnish expat in Germany
    Posts : 13,115
    Windows 10 Pro

    Microsoft has nothing to worry, European Union fair competition officials could have had something to say if a Microsoft operated email would be required to sign in to Windows. As long as for example a @Yahoo.com or @gmail.com account will be accepted as "MS Account" (a sign in account for Windows), they really have no case.
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  3.    05 Jan 2015 #33
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Idaho USA
    Posts : 4,826
    OS X, Win 10

    Thanks to all for a truly informative thread. . .learned a great deal. . .
      My ComputerSystem Spec
  4.    05 Jan 2015 #34
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,377
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    I would of guessed just the naming of "Microsoft Account" would set off alarms
    I suppose it's up the lawyers to make the case which has never stopped them before in other cases that seemed frivolous at best
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  5.    05 Jan 2015 #35
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Chicagoland
    Posts : 34,835
    Dual boot Windows 10 FCU Pro x 64 & current Insider 10 Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Slartybart View Post
    The current process to install Windows has an extra security step if you choose to use a MS Account as your primary login. The install process weighs heavily on creating a MS account - the average user won't have the experience to differentiate what they need to do. They'll follow what's right in front of them and miss the ambiguous alternative offered to create a local account. Too many people don't read the message on the screen that tells them exactly what the problem is - this is not that case ... the dialog window obfuscates the alternate Local account option.
    Will "the average user won't have the experience to differentiate what they need to do"? I suppose they won't. I suppose it's a matter of "survival of the fittest"? Although there's a choice as Jeff posted in his post number 2, I agree that it is not clear and MS is pushing for MS accounts.

    The subject of this thread is ridiculous installation requirement, for the purpose of this discussion my emphasis is on installing Windows. I think MS would be better served if the extra step was after Windows is installed and on your first login to the MS account much like the Last test scenario (above Conclusion) in your post.

    I'll take it one step further and suggest that a local account should take precedence at install time and prompt you for a MS account login after the install is completed, the machine is up and running and you can access the Internet in order to complete any steps MS deems necessary.

    I think the issue is many-fold. Sure it's been around since Win8 and is documented many places, that doesn't mean it's a non-issue.
    Agree that it is an issue and there should be a clearer choice. I suppose it should read: "Can't do this now. I'll decide later". This will create a local account. Or perhaps lay out the benifits of a MS account? Then ask? I do agree it should be something other than what they are doing. It seems to be "forceful", however I can't blame them for peddling their wares.

    All in all, OSs aren't just about an "OS" anymore. Companies are attempting to sell their services as well. MS is not the only one.
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  6.    05 Jan 2015 #36
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,377
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    Yep the listing should simply say Make a login account,
    This can be any email address or local account just like all prior windows versions have

    Or not = not everyone even uses a login
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  7.    05 Jan 2015 #37
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Again, I am talking about MS Accounts with a Microsoft email address, I admit I should have been more clear with this.

    Kari
    Thanks Kari,

    I thought words were getting in the way

    As a matter of semantics, I differentiate between 2-step verification and a security step because 2-step verification is a well documented feature not only employed by MS (I think google started the trend).

    I also differentiate between a MS Account and all of the other web services covered by that umbrella term. A real MS account doesn't necessarily entail a MS web based eMail account, or Xbox account for that matter - but I get your drift and I'll leave it there.

    It looks as though other folks have chimed in and all make good case. Mike makes a strong argument: Some people don't have any login - I just can't think of a way to install Windows without an account of some kind.

    We all want to make Win10 better - if the install experience for a user goes poorly, the rest of their experience is tainted or they give up trying.

    The issue MS faces, as I see it, is that if they don't push the MS Account early, no one will see a need for it later unless they want to use OneDrive or install Modern apps from the Store. That could be a real danger to their plans.

    As I said before, I think the MS account set up should be much later in the install process when the user can better comply with the security feature. A thought just occurred to me that the entire account login 'mess' could be avoided by linking a MS Account to a local account. The way it is now, you have two choices

    1) Always use a MS account
    2) Use a local account and switch to a MS account when an app decides it is required.
    (you can alternatively use the MS account on a App-by-App basis)

    Why not let Windows install 'normally' and then setup a MS account if desired (or when a user decides to use an app that requires it), and tie the MS account to the Local account the same way you can use the MS account on a App-by-App basis (the local account would have access to the MS account when Apps need those services - OneDrive, Mail, xBox, etc).

    I don't think this is brain surgery - most, if not all, of the code is already there. It boils down to the overall User Experience, Ease of Use, and customer satisfaction. For me, it pisses me off switching to a MS account (Please Wait ... setting up your user profile ... log off, log on...). All of the references on my machine are then from the perspective of the MS Account (My profile becomes my MS Account name, even though it's physically still my local account folder).

    I think it would greatly simplify things if MS did not differentiate between the two accounts. One account many features, including those offered by a MS Account.

    But that's just what I think and I've been told that I think too much

    Bill
    .
    This is a really good discussion, one perhaps that MS developers should be having - thanks to everyone who contributed to the great debate.
    Last edited by Slartybart; 05 Jan 2015 at 20:07. Reason: add: and then before setup a MS account
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  8.    05 Jan 2015 #38
    Join Date : Nov 2013
    Houston
    Posts : 2,377
    3-Win-7Prox64 2-Win10Prox64

    I guess I should of said not everyone uses a password to a user account
    Obviously you would need to name a user

    Seems simple to enter either an email address or a simple name and password and not have to jump through extra hoops during a simple install setup = too simple.
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  9.    06 Jan 2015 #39
    Join Date : Sep 2014
    Nashville, TN
    Posts : 3,143
    Windows 10 Pro

    "Microsoft Account" means using the Microsoft Authentication system, which can be tied to any email address (not necessary a Microsoft email system).

    This is not the same thing as just saying you can use any email address, because you actually have to create a separate account that uses that email address as the login id.

    So you can create a Microsoft account with a Yahoo.com email address (or any email), but it's still a Microsoft account.
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  10.    06 Jan 2015 #40
    Join Date : Oct 2013
    Penns Forrest
    Posts : 3,506
    Win_8.1-Pro, Win_10.1607-Pro, Mint_17.3

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystere View Post
    "Microsoft Account" means using the Microsoft Authentication system, which can be tied to any email address (not necessary a Microsoft email system).

    This is not the same thing as just saying you can use any email address, because you actually have to create a separate account that uses that email address as the login id.

    So you can create a Microsoft account with a Yahoo.com email address (or any email), but it's still a Microsoft account.
    I'm fairly certain I always mentioned MS Account when I said you can use any eMail account. Let me know if I missed something in a post and I'll correct it.

    Maybe I'm missing the point, here's a recap
    1) You can use any eMail address to create a MS account
    2) The eMail address you enter is tied to the MS account used to login to Windows

    or are you saying something different?

    Is this what you're calling Microsoft Authentication system?
    Windows Communication Foundation Authentication Service Overview

    If you have a different reference, I'd like to read it because I thought I had a handle on this - thanks.

    Bill
    .
      My ComputerSystem Spec

 
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