Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now

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  1. Posts : 1,788
    Windows 10 Pro
       #1

    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now


    My old Win 10 Pro install on my desktop rig has a bunch of issues, so I decided it was time for a wipe-the-drive clean install. Then I thought that I should use this new install as an opportunity to migrate to Win 11. However, after several days of constantly reinstalling Win 11, and wasting lots of time on program installs and "how do I do this in Win 11" I have decided to revert back to my old Win 10 install for right now.

    I'm about to travel for over 2 weeks, and when I get back, I'll do a clean Win 10 install. Here is why.
    A clean install Win 11 is user hostile. You can't finish the first-time setup without a Wi-Fi connection. (unlike Win 10) BUT, you just did a clean install, and you can't install additional drivers at this point. But without those drivers, you are stalled. Microsoft does offer a web link for fixing the issue, but it's not very helpful.

    Once I got Win 11 installed, and I got the password issue under control, I discovered that I was constantly posting questions like, "How do I do this in Win 11?" because the GUI has changed. Is MS doing these changes to justify a new Win major release? And how does it benefit me to change the START button, or rename Admininstrative Tasks to Windows Tasks, or create a Windows Terminal to replace the search box? And those are just the changes I've encountered so far. I feel like I need a list of all the Win 10 GUI elements that have been changed in Win 11.

    Actual new functionality in Win 11? I'm sure it's there, somewhere but from what I've read, it's all "nice to have" and not "must have."

    Thanks to some helpful posts in the ElevynForum (by regulars from this forum), I learned that I need to start in "Audit mode." That worked, but after one or two reboots, (while you are installing drivers) Win 11 suddenly prompts you for a password for this account default0, which you didn't create. And I say that Win 11 also created a password for Administrator, without informing you? So to learn about fix all these issues, I had to re-install and re-install, and learn what I needed to do right after the install finishes.

    Until you connect to the MS server, you can't create user accounts.

    After a while, I got this weird "side by side" error with EDGE, rendering it useless. MS of course does have a fix, but it's a whole bunch of "try this, try that" steps.

    So I've concluded that I need to try doing a clean Win 10 install, then upgrading to Win 11. But not right now. I need to get some actual work done, not futz around endlessly with a poorly design Win 11 install.
      My Computers


  2. Posts : 2,283
    Linux:Debian, Kali-Linux... 2xWin8.1,1x7Pro, Retro:1x2003server.1xXPpro, 1xW2k,1x98SE,1x95,1x3.11
       #2

    Okay... can't you create local user account in the new win11? is it a Home edition?
    i know it was possible to do a install when they released 11.
      My Computer


  3. Posts : 23,476
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #3

    @x509


    I felt pretty much the same way about Win 11, so I cheated.
    Instead of updating to Win 11, I took a nice, clean and tweaked Win 10 install and di an In-Place Upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11. All my programs came along for the ride.
    I had to do a few personalization tweaks, but I kept track of the ones I used, and made a Tweaks Leaderboard topic...

    Windows 11 Tweaks - Leader Board. | Windows 11 Forum





    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-000000-win-10-vs-win-11.jpg


    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-00000-hard-drives.png


    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-000000-win-11-start-context-menus.png





    Addendum...

    And after doing their best to break the Win 11 Start Menu, Microsoft has generously offered to sell us the solution for $2.49

    https://apps.microsoft.com/store/det...hl=en-us&gl=us
      My Computer


  4. Posts : 6,401
    Windows 11 Pro - Windows 7 HP - Lubuntu
       #4

    M$ is specialist on releasing "new" versions that work almost the same but looks completely different.
    You have to learn everything again, and again.

    I remember that, after using Office for years, I wasn't able to work with it when they completely changed the Office 2007 GUI.

    The Start button was created for Win 95 and then, after 20 years, it changed on win 10 and again in win 11.
    I gave up on Win 11 because there was some issues with ExplorerPatcher and without it I couldn't use OpenShell.
      My Computers


  5. Posts : 15,503
    Windows10
       #5

    Ghot said:




    Addendum...

    And after doing their best to break the Win 11 Start Menu, Microsoft has generously offered to sell us the solution for $2.49

    https://apps.microsoft.com/store/det...hl=en-us&gl=us
    Have you tried it - on my laptop, the old menu initially comes up and after about a five second lag the new menu pops up.

    This is more annoying than just putting up with the standard menu. Good job I won a few bob on the Grand National!

    edit: just tested it, you can only display 36 shortcuts but can add more but cannot see or access then - they only become visible if you delete some shortcuts.

    So far - unimpressed.
      My Computer


  6. Posts : 822
    Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
       #6

    Ghot said:
    @x509


    I felt pretty much the same way about Win 11, so I cheated.
    Instead of updating to Win 11, I took a nice, clean and tweaked Win 10 install and di an In-Place Upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11. All my programs came along for the ride.
    I had to do a few personalization tweaks, but I kept track of the ones I used, and made a Tweaks Leaderboard topic...

    Windows 11 Tweaks - Leader Board. | Windows 11 Forum





    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-000000-win-10-vs-win-11.jpg


    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-00000-hard-drives.png


    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-000000-win-11-start-context-menus.png





    Addendum...

    And after doing their best to break the Win 11 Start Menu, Microsoft has generously offered to sell us the solution for $2.49

    https://apps.microsoft.com/store/det...hl=en-us&gl=us
    Are you sure that the pictures of "This PC" are win 10 and win 11... looking at the free space on drive C are exactly same, Looks like you posted the same pic twice
      My Computer


  7. Posts : 23,476
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #7

    Digital Life said:
    Are you sure that the pictures of "This PC" are win 10 and win 11... looking at the free space on drive C are exactly same, Looks like you posted the same pic twice



    Are you accusing me of base trickery?


    My Win 10 is approx. 31.1 GB
    My win 11 is approx. 30.0 GB

    I have the exact same software on both.
    Same tweaks, same wallpaper, etc., etc.



    The BLUE dot items aren't really on the C: partition... and since this pic, I've moved Microsoft Links 2003 (about 10GB) to a storage drive.

    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-00000-win-10-ssd-vs-win-11-ssd.jpg



    I did an In-Place Upgrade on an exact copy of my Win 10 install... to get to Win 11.










    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-how-i-did-.png

    Possible experiment... | Windows 11 Forum

    My latest experiment...
    Last edited by Ghot; 17 Apr 2023 at 20:28.
      My Computer


  8. Posts : 2,171
    Windows 11 Pro (latest update ... forever anal)
       #8

    Oh dear. Every step of the way my mind went to ... User error unfamaliar with process, User error unfamaliar with process, User error unfamaliar with process, ad infinitum. So many steps during the process I wondered if ... How/Why did the user do this? Why not just ...."

    It's difficult not having been present to watch the user do the process - we don't even know what installation media the user created to do the installation (therein lies the possible first answer to the whole experience)

    I would not like this to become a deterrent from anyone else wishing to undertake the process. To counter, I relate my experiences - multiple devices, with/out Microsoft's ersatz attempts at security standards - all satisfactorily pleasing successes.

    I just get a little sick and tired of unjustified Win10/11 bashing because of user inexperience/unfamiliarity.
      My Computers


  9. Posts : 23,476
    Win 10 Home ♦♦♦19045.4412 (x64) [22H2]
       #9

    @Digital Life


    Here, this is probably the most telling... remember the Win 10 and Win 11 updates aren't always the same size...
    These are both on 22H2... regular channel.

    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-image1.png



    Generally, Win 11 backups are a tad smaller. I assume that's due to Win 11 efficiency?
    In Macrium Reflect, the backups (on medium compression - default), are about 1/2 the used space on C:\





    Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now-0000-one.jpg
      My Computer


  10. Posts : 1,788
    Windows 10 Pro
    Thread Starter
       #10

    Marie SWE said:
    Okay... can't you create local user account in the new win11? is it a Home edition?
    i know it was possible to do a install when they released 11.
    Not until after I connected to microsoft's servers. And I naively thought I could defer that while I took care of more important installs and configuration.

    And guess what? I just tried to boot up my Win 11 account and the Administrator account was disabled. Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?

    And no, I am NOT going to another Win 11 clean install.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ghot said:
    @x509


    I felt pretty much the same way about Win 11, so I cheated.
    Instead of updating to Win 11, I took a nice, clean and tweaked Win 10 install and di an In-Place Upgrade from Win 10 to Win 11. All my programs came along for the ride.
    I am in violent agreement with your approach. Now, given that I need to replace my old, crufty Win 10 install, I'll do a clean Win 10, install all my programs, etc, enjoy that for a while and then do an inplace upgrade. After doing a Macrium backup, of course.
    I had to do a few personalization tweaks, but I kept track of the ones I used, and made a Tweaks Leaderboard topic...

    Windows 11 Tweaks - Leader Board. | Windows 11 Forum
    Amazing list. I wish there was one for Win 10. I've done a few tweak reg files myself, but my list is puny compared to the Leaderboard list.

    Addendum...

    And after doing their best to break the Win 11 Start Menu, Microsoft has generously offered to sell us the solution for $2.49

    https://apps.microsoft.com/store/det...hl=en-us&gl=us
    So is Microsoft converting Windows into a freemium model? How much longer until installing more than 1 printer will cost? Or will we have to pay $5 for every net share? Or maybe pay something for each processor core, like Oracle charges (or charged)?

    If someone else came out with a program like this, I would pay $10, just so M$ $$$ doesn't get any more of my money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Megahertz said:
    M$ is specialist on releasing "new" versions that work almost the same but looks completely different.
    You have to learn everything again, and again.

    I remember that, after using Office for years, I wasn't able to work with it when they completely changed the Office 2007 GUI.

    The Start button was created for Win 95 and then, after 20 years, it changed on win 10 and again in win 11.
    I gave up on Win 11 because there was some issues with ExplorerPatcher and without it I couldn't use OpenShell.
    So I must be stupid. I just don't see how these changes actually benefit us? Like I say, stupid, really stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    idgat said:

    It's difficult not having been present to watch the user do the process - we don't even know what installation media the user created to do the installation (therein lies the possible first answer to the whole experience)
    Your basic USB drive installer, created with Media Creation Tool. Nothing fancy. No rufus or ventoy or isolinux.


    I would not like this to become a deterrent from anyone else wishing to undertake the process. To counter, I relate my experiences - multiple devices, with/out Microsoft's ersatz attempts at security standards - all satisfactorily pleasing successes.

    I just get a little sick and tired of unjustified Win10/11 bashing because of user inexperience/unfamiliarity.
    Sure, except I don't consider myself inexperienced. I have 40 years in product management for software companies, I think I know a little something about usability, customer issues with retraining costs due to upgrades, loss of productivity, etc. I've been building my own desktop systems when DOS was a thing. I am perfectly happy with Win 10 and don't see any need to change the UI or most of its functionality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Interesting, but not surprising, that no one is arguing that upgrading to Win 11 is a huge benefit, that I must be a troglodyte for staying with Win 10, etc.

    As a final thought, consider your non-PC savvy family members, like say your wife, for whom the PC is just an "information appliance." They know how to run the machine to get their work done, because they know how to turn off/hibernate the system, how to use the right-click menu options, the DOS search box, etc. Now take all that away from them. You'll be sleeping on the sofa for a while.

    Or maybe your nine-year old child who uses their PC for homework assignments.
      My Computers


 

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