Why I decided against a Win 11 clean install for now

x509 said:

Sure, except I don't consider myself inexperienced.

Some evidence to the contrary demonstrated above ....

I have 40 years in product management for software companies, I think I know a little something about usability, customer issues with retraining costs due to upgrades, loss of productivity, etc. I've been building my own desktop systems when DOS was a thing.

I don't deny your experience as a user, and maybe your life experience with software, but your demonstrated inexperience with the nuances of installing Windows does not justify Windows bashing.

x509 said:

My old Win 10 Pro install on my desktop rig has a bunch of issues, so I decided it was time for a wipe-the-drive clean install. Then I thought that I should use this new install as an opportunity to migrate to Win 11. However, after several days of constantly reinstalling Win 11, and wasting lots of time on program installs and "how do I do this in Win 11" I have decided to revert back to my old Win 10 install for right now.

I'm about to travel for over 2 weeks, and when I get back, I'll do a clean Win 10 install. Here is why.
A clean install Win 11 is user hostile. You can't finish the first-time setup without a Wi-Fi connection. (unlike Win 10) BUT, you just did a clean install, and you can't install additional drivers at this point. But without those drivers, you are stalled. Microsoft does offer a web link for fixing the issue, but it's not very helpful.

Once I got Win 11 installed, and I got the password issue under control, I discovered that I was constantly posting questions like, "How do I do this in Win 11?" because the GUI has changed. Is MS doing these changes to justify a new Win major release? And how does it benefit me to change the START button, or rename Admininstrative Tasks to Windows Tasks, or create a Windows Terminal to replace the search box? And those are just the changes I've encountered so far. I feel like I need a list of all the Win 10 GUI elements that have been changed in Win 11.

Actual new functionality in Win 11? I'm sure it's there, somewhere but from what I've read, it's all "nice to have" and not "must have."

Thanks to some helpful posts in the ElevynForum (by regulars from this forum), I learned that I need to start in "Audit mode." That worked, but after one or two reboots, (while you are installing drivers) Win 11 suddenly prompts you for a password for this account default0, which you didn't create. And I say that Win 11 also created a password for Administrator, without informing you? So to learn about fix all these issues, I had to re-install and re-install, and learn what I needed to do right after the install finishes.

Until you connect to the MS server, you can't create user accounts.

After a while, I got this weird "side by side" error with EDGE, rendering it useless. MS of course does have a fix, but it's a whole bunch of "try this, try that" steps.

So I've concluded that I need to try doing a clean Win 10 install, then upgrading to Win 11. But not right now. I need to get some actual work done, not futz around endlessly with a poorly design Win 11 install.

I did a very easy clean install of W11 on my new PC build at the weekend. I did install the ethernet driver at the start of the install and set up the main account using my Microsoft account. I did not input a licence code during installation. Once installed, W11 was not activated as expected. I then ran the activation troubleshooter, selected the changed hardware option then picked up the licence from my old PC. I sorted out the UI by using a left start button, restored the W10 right click behaviour and installed Open Shell.

Marie SWE said:

Okay... can't you create local user account in the new win11? is it a Home edition? i know it was possible to do a install when they released 11.

x509 said:

Not until after I connected to microsoft's servers. And I naively thought I could defer that while I took care of more important installs and configuration....

The OOBE stage of setting up Windows 11 insists on connecting to the internet, and then on using a Microsoft account as the initial account. This is the case for both Home and Pro.

There is a way round this, a script provided by Microsoft, named bypassnro.cmd, and found in the C:\Windows\System32\OOBE folder (or sometimes MSOOBE on an OEM pre-installed system). This restarts the OOBE, this time with an option to skip connecting and continue with a 'limited setup' - ie. you can create a local account.

To invoke it press Shift+F10 at the screen asking for a network connection to get a Command Prompt and type OOBE\bypassnro
What is "oobe\bypassnro" | Windows 11 Forum

Bree said:

The OOBE stage of setting up Windows 11 insists on connecting to the internet, and then on using a Microsoft account as the initial account. This is the case for both Home and Pro.

There is a way round this, a script provided by Microsoft, named bypassnro.cmd, and found in the C:\Windows\System32\OOBE folder (or sometimes MSOOBE on an OEM pre-installed system). This restarts the OOBE, this time with an option to skip connecting and continue with a 'limited setup' - ie. you can create a local account.

To invoke it press Shift+F10 at the screen asking for a network connection to gert a Command Promp ant type OOBE\bypassnro
What is "oobe\bypassnro" | Windows 11 Forum

Why do this when my experience as post 12 was so easy?

Steve C said:

Why do this when my experience as post 12 was so easy?

You had to set up with your Microsoft account, not everyone wants to do that (or even has an MS account). If you set up with an MS account you will have a user folder with the first 5 character of you email address as its name. If you set up a local account as the first account you can give it any name you want, even if you plan to switch it to an MS account later.

idgat said:

Some evidence to the contrary demonstrated above ....



I don't deny your experience as a user, and maybe your life experience with software, but your demonstrated inexperience with the nuances of installing Windows does not justify Windows bashing.

Then we are just going to have to disagree, and I want to keep it competely civilized, in the spirit of this entire forum.

I can only say that even mighty Microsoft is not immune to the best practices for UI. At one point, not sure if it is still true, MS supposed had a one to one ratio between classic software engineers and UI experts. When I first heard that comment, I believed it because I was struck by the relative "user friendliness" of MS programs with similar programs from other vendors. I'm honestly surprised that the Win 11 install process was not subject to more UI testing. Change a small part here and a small part there, and that process would have been much better.

I became good at detecting the lack of good UI design, which is a whole lot easier than knowing how to do a good UI. I've had to shut down several products because the UI was hopelessly flawed. In one case, we did user testing, and one person was reduced to tears when she did not understand how to use the product under test. A video tape of that woman was shown to top management, and they were shocked.

To my specific issues of the Win 11 install, it requires a level of technical skills and experience far beyond most users. I have been able, bit by bit, to work past these issues. But I know that even though I'm not a brink or kari level guru I have decent technical chops, beyond that of any of my friends.

x509 said:

Then we are just going to have to disagree, and I want to keep it competely civilized, in the spirit of this entire forum.

I can only say that even mighty Microsoft is not immune to the best practices for UI. At one point, not sure if it is still true, MS supposed had a one to one ratio between classic software engineers and UI experts. When I first heard that comment, I believed it because I was struck by the relative "user friendliness" of MS programs with similar programs from other vendors. I'm honestly surprised that the Win 11 install process was not subject to more UI testing. Change a small part here and a small part there, and that process would have been much better.

I became good at detecting the lack of good UI design, which is a whole lot easier than knowing how to do a good UI. I've had to shut down several products because the UI was hopefully flawed. In one case, we did user testing, and one person was reduced to tears when she did not understand how to use the product under test. A video tape of that woman was shown to top management, and they were shocked.

To my specific issues of the Win 11 install, it requires a level of technical skills and experience far beyond most users. I have been able, bit by bit, to work past these issues. But I know that even though I'm not a brink or kari level guru I have decent technical chops, beyond that of any of my friends.

x509 said:

Not until after I connected to microsoft's servers. And I naively thought I could defer that while I took care of more important installs and configuration.

And guess what? I just tried to boot up my Win 11 account and the Administrator account was disabled. Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?

And no, I am NOT going to another Win 11 clean install.

Okay.. I have not messed with win11 since the release as i had to test to hack the install to make it install on unsupported hardware and with a local account on Home edition I just did it because some wanted a HowTo guide back then.
and i will not mess with win11 until win10 is EOL and then i might skip 11 and go to 12 directly as i did with XP to win7 and skipped Vista

Bree said:

The OOBE stage of setting up Windows 11 insists on connecting to the internet, and then on using a Microsoft account as the initial account. This is the case for both Home and Pro.

There is a way round this, a script provided by Microsoft, named bypassnro.cmd, and found in the C:\Windows\System32\OOBE folder (or sometimes MSOOBE on an OEM pre-installed system). This restarts the OOBE, this time with an option to skip connecting and continue with a 'limited setup' - ie. you can create a local account.

To invoke it press Shift+F10 at the screen asking for a network connection to get a Command Prompt and type OOBE\bypassnro
What is "oobe\bypassnro" | Windows 11 Forum

I didn't know about that hack.. Interesting




and for the part of some do not want an MS accont.. yeah.. I am one of them. *LOL*

Ghot said:

[MENTION=1619]

Generally, Win 11 backups are a tad smaller. I assume that's due to Win 11 efficiency?

I have noticed that Windows 11 is tidier at cleaning up after updates than Windows 10.

After a normal WU cumulative update on W10, there always seems to be data that is not fully cleaned up. W11 certainly does a better job.

I cannot say if that is the sole reason for smaller images as I think even the base w11 installation was slightly smaller than a w10 installation.

cereberus said:

I have noticed that Windows 11 is tidier at cleaning up after updates than Windows 10.

After a normal WU cumulative update on W10, there always seems to be data that is not fully cleaned up. W11 certainly does a better job.

I cannot say if that is the sole reason for smaller images as I think even the base w11 installation was slightly smaller than a w10 instaalation..

Agreed on all counts.