Help with dual booting Win 10 and Ubuntu

flexmcmurphy · 14 Apr 2021

Thanks @topgundcp

But did I do the right things to switch my set up to be the same like what you were suggesting? If I boot into the Win 10 disk then I see the nice Win 10 dual boot menu. If I select Ubuntu then yes I do see the GRUB2 menu but I guess I could play around with the grub config settings in linux so that menu doesn't show? Or was there something else I did wrong?

Why do you really not like GRUB2 being the main bootloader? Is it because in your case you want to use Windows 10 most of the time so it doesn't make much sense?

In my use-case I would prefer to use Ubuntu 90% of the time. From my research I learnt that GRUB2 can boot Windows and Ubuntu of course without needing to do an extra boot and you also said yourself that Windows bootmgr has to do an extra boot to make Ubuntu boot. I think that is inefficient and will cause more wear and tear on my hardware.

I'm reading your interesting post in this thread but I don't understand your first point 2. and point 4. From my testing the GRUB boot loader does not need to be in its own partition so Ubuntu can can boot stand alone. It booted just fine for me with GRUB in /dev/sda or in /dev/sda1. Well each time I get the GRUB menu but I don't think the location of GRUB determines if you get the menu or not but is determined by how you edit the GRUB config files. No?

For your point 4: "Any update from Windows won't affect LINUX and vice versa." What kind of updates do you mean that might cause problems and what kind of problems? In my first set up with GRUB in /dev/sda and being the main bootloader it wasn't affecting the Windows installation at all because they are both on separate disks just GRUB has a pointer to Windows. Windows doesn't know that Ubuntu exists... I don't think? The only thing is if I restart the computer then it will default boot into Linux and maybe that will prevent a Windows update from completing that required a reboot. But this is hardly a show stopper? This problem is unavoidable in a dual boot set up where Windows is not the boot default.

I'm really glad to get your insight because I've no one else to ask about this stuff and it's all really interesting to me so thank you for your patience and advice.

Flex

topgundcp · 18 Apr 2021

But did I do the right things to switch my set up to be the same like what you were suggesting? If I boot into the Win 10 disk then I see the nice Win 10 dual boot menu. If I select Ubuntu then yes I do see the GRUB2 menu but I guess I could play around with the grub config settings in linux so that menu doesn't show? Or was there something else I did wrong?

No, You did right. By default GRUB always shows the Boot Menu. I forgot to mention that you need to configure GRUB so that it will hide the Menu.
You can follow this link to hide it: How to Hide Grub Menu in Boot of your Linux Machine
or in Linux, you can install Grub Customizer and set visible to NO and Timeout=0.

Why do you really not like GRUB2 being the main bootloader? Is it because in your case you want to use Windows 10 most of the time so it doesn't make much sense?

Never said I did like or did not like. As a Windows user most of the time, Windows Manager is easier to maintain and fix or rebuild. Not just Windows users but also lots of Linux users complain about it. There's a lots of questions in this forum that users having problems getting stuck with Grub Loader.
I install Linux on both Legacy and UEFI. With UEFI, if you have Windows OS in the PC then Linux will take over control of Windows Boot Manager also and leave its own EFI System partition empty so I have to move it back to where it belong, still when you access the boot menu, there's 3 different entries for Linux to boot from, why would they do that ? I don't know but it's messy, the 3 entries are: /EFI/Boot/Bootx64.efi, /EFI/ubuntu/grubx64.efi and /EFI/ubuntu/shimx64.efi while only grubx64.efi is needed. I had to manually rename the other 2's so only one will show up in the boot menu.

In my use-case I would prefer to use Ubuntu 90% of the time. From my research I learnt that GRUB2 can boot Windows and Ubuntu of course without needing to do an extra boot and you also said yourself that Windows bootmgr has to do an extra boot to make Ubuntu boot. I think that is inefficient and will cause more wear and tear on my hardware.

Cannot tell you what wear and tear little thing like that would do anything to your hardware. I have a 15 year old PC and despite of my abuse, it's still running like new.

I'm reading your interesting post in this thread but I don't understand your first point 2. and point 4. From my testing the GRUB boot loader does not need to be in its own partition so Ubuntu can can boot stand alone. It booted just fine for me with GRUB in /dev/sda or in /dev/sda1. Well each time I get the GRUB menu but I don't think the location of GRUB determines if you get the menu or not but is determined by how you edit the GRUB config files. No?

Well, I have to repeat again. I just want everything in one place: Grub Loader+Linux OS so if I want to remove it then it's gone, nothing related to Linux remained in the PC.

For your point 4: "Any update from Windows won't affect LINUX and vice versa." What kind of updates do you mean that might cause problems and what kind of problems? In my first set up with GRUB in /dev/sda and being the main bootloader it wasn't affecting the Windows installation at all because they are both on separate disks just GRUB has a pointer to Windows. Windows doesn't know that Ubuntu exists... I don't think? The only thing is if I restart the computer then it will default boot into Linux and maybe that will prevent a Windows update from completing that required a reboot. But this is hardly a show stopper? This problem is unavoidable in a dual boot set up where Windows is not the boot default.

For MBR, besides putting GRUB in the MBR, it also modifies the Windows Boot Manager in order to take whole control, as the case for UEFI, It moves everything from its own EFI System Partition to the Windows EFI System Partition, I then took a look at one file Bootx64.efi and compare one before install Linux and one after Install Linux, the difference in size is about 200K, with a program (Beyond Compare) to compare the difference between the 2's and they are big difference.At the end, I still think you should consider using the boot menu as advised by @Megahertz and I said it before, this is how I use it also.

Turn off the Grub boot menu. set it to first boot since you work with Linux most of the time.
This way you don't even have to wait 10 seconds count down before Grub boot up.
Boot Windows when needed via boot menu.

mukhi · 19 Nov 2024

topgundcp said:

As you can see from the screen shot #2. Windows Boot Manager is in control of booting process and to make dual boot, use Easy BCD.
Attachment 327319

Attachment 327318

In addition, when both don't know each other existence, Update Windows will not interfere with Linux and vice versa.

Even after I made sure that Ubuntu+Grub bootloader stayed on the same partition while installing it and that EasyBCD created the dual boot, the dreaded Grub bootloader is coming first when I power the laptop on, and the Windows Boot Manager (like your screenshot #2) is showing up only when I am 'choosing' Windows 10 from the Grub menu (Ubuntu being default; version 20.04.6 LTS). Please help.

itsme1 · 19 Nov 2024

mukhi said:

Even after I made sure that Ubuntu+Grub bootloader stayed on the same partition while installing it and that EasyBCD created the dual boot, the dreaded Grub bootloader is coming first when I power the laptop on, and the Windows Boot Manager (like your screenshot #2) is showing up only when I am 'choosing' Windows 10 from the Grub menu (Ubuntu being default; version 20.04.6 LTS). Please help.

In legacy/mbr I have not configured the dual boot as indicated by topgundcp.
The grub2 must not be on a partition sda1 or sdb1 for example but, as indicated by the designers of grub2, on sda, sdb... And I use the boot repair disk iso on a ventoy usb key to repair grub2 and the windows entry in grub2. It's easy with a graphical interface and it only takes a few minutes.

For your problem you must surely place the windows disk in the first position and the ubuntu disk in the second position in the bios.

In msconfig under windows make sure that the windows entry is the default one (not ubuntu). Finally as indicated by topgundcp, you must hide the appearance of grub2, this is to be done under ubuntu in command line. Help with dual booting Win 10 and Ubuntu
Search the internet for "How to Hide Grub Menu in Boot of your Linux Machine" or "How to Hide Grub Menu in Boot of your ubuntu Machine"

mukhi · 19 Nov 2024

itsme1 said:

For your problem you must surely place the windows disk in the first position and the ubuntu disk in the second position in the bios.

In msconfig under windows make sure that the windows entry is the default one (not ubuntu).

Finally as indicated by topgundcp, you must hide the appearance of grub2, this is to be done under ubuntu in command line.

Thanks for your suggestions. However,
#1 I have no option to place the Windows disk in the 1st position and the Ubuntu disk in the 2nd position in the BIOS. It's a laptop from 2011.

#2 In msconfig under Windows, I cannot make the Windows entry the default one as the boot tab doesn't show Ubuntu at all.

#3 Even if I try to hide the appearance of Grub2 using the Ubuntu terminal, won't Ubuntu still boot by default? My Grub2 menu has Ubuntu at the top and Windows 10 at the bottom. On the other hand, the Windows bootloader that appears later (only when I select Windows 10 from the Grub2 menu) has Windows 10 1st followed by Ubuntu as I used EasyBCD.

This overpowering of Grub2 bootloader seems to be too frustrating!

itsme1 · 19 Nov 2024

Weird that you can't put the Windows disk in first position. If you looked quickly in the bios, look again. I have an old desktop computer I can, there is a hdd section, and I put in first position a hdd then in the boot section this hdd appears in first position to boot.

Yes ubuntu will start it will not be windows. But it is possible to choose windows instead of ubuntu.

Follow this tutorial: How to Hide Grub Boot Menu in Ubuntu 20.04, 21.10 (Updated) | UbuntuHandbook

Copy/paste the lines you are going to modify in a text file. The grub file can be saved with a command line:

Code:

sudo cp /etc/default/grub /etc/default/grub.bak

follow the 2 steps of the tutorial. So you should not modify the line GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true.

in step 1 you only modify the values of the lines GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE and GRUB_TIMEOUT (put 3 as value is better).
Do not add the lines that are missing, these are lines removed in recent versions of ubuntu.

To edit the grub file it is

Code:

sudo -H gnome-text-editor /etc/default/grub

or the command of the tutorial is good with your version of ubuntu 22.10.

For windows to launch instead of ubuntu you modify the line GRUB DEFAULT="ubuntu"
between the quotes you replace ubuntu with a number corresponding to the line of the windows entry that appears in the grub2 menu. 1 is ubuntu, 2 memtest etc.

Edit: This configuration is different from topgundcp because he had to put the windows disk in first position and then hide the grub2 menu so that it does not appear when he chooses ubuntu.

In your configuration, if during a major update of ubuntu the windows entry is deleted, you will not be able to boot on windows. You will have to do the sudo update-grub command under ubuntu to recover the windows entry, it is not sure that it works.

There is boot repair disk to repair the windows entry, but I think that by default boot repair disk places grub on sda, sdb... In boot repair, you have to uncheck reinstall grub. And to repair the windows entry, you go to the advanced settings and check repair windows. Once the windows entry is back, you boot on windows and delete the boot folder, the bootmgr file (and maybe another file) that boot repair disk created at the root of c:. If you don't do this, when you go to repair the windows entry again with boot repair disk, the repair windows option will be grayed out.

Edit 2: You should do like me, the default configuration is simpler. You put grub2 on sda sdb... And you use boot repair disk iso on a ventoy usb key. You will never have a problem, like windows update breaks grub2. An ubuntu update could delete the windows entry(s), but with boot repair disk you repair in a few seconds, a little more taking into account the boot repair disk startup.

Do not install boot repair disk in ubuntu it could cause problems.

mukhi · 20 Nov 2024

itsme1 said:

Weird that you can't put the Windows disk in first position. If you looked quickly in the bios, look again.

Yes ubuntu will start it will not be windows. But it is possible to choose windows instead of ubuntu.

Although I love doing tech stuffs, it's becoming a little too much for me after so much troubleshooting in different forums; I apologize.
Let me show you what I have.

BIOS boot tab:

Help with dual booting Win 10 and Ubuntu-bios.jpg

GRUB bootloader menu:

Help with dual booting Win 10 and Ubuntu-grub.jpg

The above GRUB bootloader menu appears when I turn on my laptop. If I use the arrow keys to 'manually' select Windows 10, the Windows bootloader menu shows up only then, which is what I want but just only after I power on my PC!

Like I said before, it's a Vaio laptop from 2011 and I am using the Windows 10 and Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS, if that helps understand what's possible. Ubuntu+Grub bootloader on the same partition; Ubuntu being reinstalled as per suggestions from topgundcp (previously, I allowed the default installation of Ubuntu; so, it's likely Ubuntu and the Grub bootloader were installed on different partitions, and I don't know whether that is creating the problem).

And, I am not sure whether Ubuntu would still boot by default even if I tried hiding the appearance of Grub2 using the Ubuntu terminal as per instructions available on the internet.

itsme1 · 20 Nov 2024

mukhi said:

Although I love doing tech stuffs, it's becoming a little too much for me after so much troubleshooting in different forums; I apologize.
Let me show you what I have.

BIOS boot tab:

GRUB bootloader menu:

The above GRUB bootloader menu appears when I turn on my laptop. If I use the arrow keys to 'manually' select Windows 10, the Windows bootloader menu shows up only then, which is what I want but just only after I power on my PC!

Like I said before, it's a Vaio laptop from 2011 and I am using the Windows 10 and Ubuntu 20.04.6 LTS, if that helps understand what's possible. Ubuntu+Grub bootloader on the same partition; Ubuntu being reinstalled as per suggestions from topgundcp (previously, I allowed the default installation of Ubuntu; so, it's likely Ubuntu and the Grub bootloader were installed on different partitions, and I don't know whether that is creating the problem).

And, I am not sure whether Ubuntu would still boot by default even if I tried hiding the appearance of Grub2 using the Ubuntu terminal as per instructions available on the internet.

In the bios under boot priority try to put internal hard disk drive in first position and see if it starts windows first.

the GRUB bootloader menu appears when you turn on your laptop because the windows disk does not start first. If I put the windows disk first, it is windows that starts, not the grub2 with ubuntu.
In the GRUB bootloader menu windows is in fifth position.
You change the line GRUB DEFAULT="ubuntu" to GRUB DEFAULT="5" in the grub file, the one that also allows you to hide the grub2 menu. This is to prevent ubuntu from starting by default when you hide grub2.

Download the Boot Info Script to see where grub2 is: SourceForge.net: Boot Info Script - Project Web Hosting - Open Source Software

Yes if you hide the grub2 menu ubuntu will start first, as already said. You need to change the line GRUB DEFAULT="ubuntu" to GRUB DEFAULT="5" in the grub file.

Volume Z · 20 Nov 2024

Edit: I made a mistake.

itsme1 · 20 Nov 2024

Volume Z said:

Windows DISK. Ubuntu DISK. When you have Ubuntu and Windows Boot Managers on the same PARTITION, you have them on the same DISK as well. I wonder if there are several disks involved at all. What is the situation in Windows DISK MANAGEMENT?

mukhi has 2 disks since in his post 25 he said he couldn't put the windows disk in first position and the ubuntu disk in second position. His laptop is from 2011 he knows it very well.