Windows 10 fresh installation on computer delivered with Win-10 OEM

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  1. Posts : 24,664
    10 Home x64 (21H2) (10 Pro on 2nd pc)
       #21

    wintenprouser said:
    I think I saw that reply briefly this morning from the other poster but it seems that the poster had deleted it. Had a super busy day and haven't had anytime to even read that reply...
    Take it from me, you didn't miss much

    But my interest in using DISKPART manually is simply that - to master and feel confident about using it. I've been using lots of command line / command prompt interfaces for decades, it's not a big deal and feels very at home for me. Convenience isn't the point here but learning is.
    That's why we're all here. For me it's been getting to grips with Powershell (long-term command line batch file writer here).
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  2. Posts : 24
    Windows
    Thread Starter
       #22

    dalchina said:
    Assume, for example, you were clean installing to an empty disk. If you wished to reserve aone or more partitions for user data, say to the end of available space, you could create that, then install Win 10 to the remaining unallocated space.

    Alternatively, clean install Win 10, then shrink C: and create the partiitons you want in the space released. Of course if you have more than one disk you have more options. The recovery partition is small- say 700Mb or so. The reserved partition is really small. The recovery partition supports automatic repair, advanced boot options, boot to safe mode. Without that you could achieve most but not all with a Win 10 boot disk.
    I've now had some time in the last few days to review the basic GPT structural requirements based on Microsoft's official GPT partition requirements and can correlate those requirements to what you explained earlier. It seems fairly easy to use manually DISKPART to meet these requirements and basically from what I could gather, it amounts to manually achieving / meeting those requirement so that:

    1. The first partition will be 100 MB to be formatted in FAT-32 format.
    2. The second reserved partition will be 16 MB not to be formatted.
    3. The third and any additional partitions can be created to specific exact sizes specified via repeated execution of the CREATE command with SIZE parameter and partition type PRIMARY and formatted in NTFS, in order to have multiple user accessible drives with drive letters (e.g. C: D: E:) SO LONG AS there is sufficient remaining unallocated space to create a final special parition that meets the partition size and type and ID requirements which parts the partition as a special recovery partition.

    This would seem relatively easy to accomplish since the last user drive letter can be created of a size that is all remaining allocated space MINUS the recovery partition size, or the last user primary partition could be created and then shrunk by an amount equal to the desired recovery paritions size.

    Am I missing anything on the above summary?

    The remaining question I have is, suppose the recovery partition was deliberately OMITTED on the HDD and there is NO further unallocated space or insufficient space to satisfy Microsoft reserved partition requirements. Would Win-10's recovery functions be smart enough NOT to launch when noting that the recovery partition is absent on the HDD? Or is Win-10's installation routine so bossy that I would refuse to install when it detects a HDD lacking the recovery partition? Is the recovery function in Win-10 an expanded version of previous Windows version's recovery console and runs off the HDD rather than just the boot media (optical disc or USB flash drive)? It seems the former is what I understand how it works.

    I'm currently undecided about whether I would allocate space for the recovery partition or not. If third party image back up works well as I have experienced with older versions of Windows, then I would say I've never used or relied on Windows repair or recovery in pre-Win-10 versions of Windows ever. So recovery functions may be something I'd forego unless Win-10's Windows update, etc are so unreliable that such functions are frequently needed for system roll backs.

    Speaking of Win-10 forced updates, in past Windows versions including Vista and Win-7, I've simply gone into computer management's service section to completely stop and disable Windows update service, but apparently I have read somewhere that Win-10 is nasty enough to turn it back on. What's the truth on that point? In my current Win-10-Pro OEM installation that was factory installed, I do have the Windows update service stopped and disabled and have not yet seen it being turned back on, unless Win-10's update deferral of 35 days later results in forced re-enabling of Windows update service even if it has been manually stopped and disabled by the user.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bree said:
    Take it from me, you didn't miss much That's why we're all here. For me it's been getting to grips with Powershell (long-term command line batch file writer here).
    I'm not even there yet, but yes, the good old days of BAT files with primitive ERRORLEVEL branch logic. Don't remind me LOL.
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  3. Posts : 34,992
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #23

    Speaking of Win-10 forced updates, in past Windows versions including Vista and Win-7, I've simply gone into computer management's service section to completely stop and disable Windows update service, but apparently I have read somewhere that Win-10 is nasty enough to turn it back on. What's the truth on that point?
    First, if you bought Home, you signed up to Windows as a service with updates delivered automatically. I find it unfortunate that users then describe updates as 'forced'. You did not choose Pro, which offers more control.

    The only reason, I suggest, that people complain, is MS's poor quality and the problems some of these introduce, or perhaps unexpected restarts (which Active Hours helps with when configured), or perhaps their effect on users with limited connections. After all, no-one seems to complain about very frequent smart phone 'forced' updates...

    Second, as has been very very frequently posted there are some third party freeware tools like WUMT, Sledgehammer (free) which disable updates soundly. Basic methods used in the past may not prove reliable. Other methods have been mentioned on this forum.
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  4. Posts : 17,281
    Windows 11 Pro
       #24

    Why not just leave the drive unallocated (no partitions) and let Windows setup create the partitions it wants to?
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  5. Posts : 24
    Windows
    Thread Starter
       #25

    dalchina said:
    First, if you bought Home, you signed up to Windows as a service with updates delivered automatically. I find it unfortunate that users then describe updates as 'forced'. You did not choose Pro, which offers more control. The only reason, I suggest, that people complain, is MS's poor quality and the problems some of these introduce, or perhaps unexpected restarts (which Active Hours helps with when configured), or perhaps their effect on users with limited connections. After all, no-one seems to complain about very frequent smart phone 'forced' updates... Second, as has been very very frequently posted there are some third party freeware tools like WUMT, Sledgehammer (free) which disable updates soundly. Basic methods used in the past may not prove reliable. Other methods have been mentioned on this forum.
    Actually the system I am working on is Win-10-Pro as originally mentioned in the first post, this notebook only has Win-10 Pro as the option, so when I reinstall it on a new HDD, the Win-10 installer will detect the UEFI embedded product key and set up the fresh installation as Pro. I've actually never used any other variant in all Win OS other than Pro if I installed from scratch, save for some previous Windows versions that came with pre-UEFI systems factory installed as OEM editions that were non-Pro. As for WUMT, I have already used that tool previously with other older Windows versions for completely different reasons, in prepping another system for someone else from scratch. I haven't used WUMT with Win-10 yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    NavyLCDR said:
    Why not just leave the drive unallocated (no partitions) and let Windows setup create the partitions it wants to?
    So I can create multiple user drive partitions with the ability to exactly specify their desired size, except for the last user drive partition, which will be all remaining space available - but in Win-10, possibly minus the Windows recovery drive space requirements. But since I've still not yet determined if deliberate omission of the recovery drive partition will be just fine other than recovery functions being unavailable, I'll read up a bit more on that, unless you know the answer to that question.
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  6. Posts : 34,992
    Win 10 Pro (1903) (2nd PC is 21H2)
       #26

    Thanks for clarifying you're only interested in Pro (your specs only say OS: Windows).

    I wonder if you're aware of the group policy option to set updates to Notify?
    You get an Action Centre notication, and if you click on that, Settings opens to tell you what updates are available.
    Nothing happens until you act on that. No 'forced' updates...
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  7. Posts : 24
    Windows
    Thread Starter
       #27

    dalchina said:
    Thanks for clarifying you're only interested in Pro (your specs only say OS: Windows). I wonder if you're aware of the group policy option to set updates to Notify? You get an Action Centre notication, and if you click on that, Settings opens to tell you what updates are available. Nothing happens until you act on that. No 'forced' updates...
    My profle / avatar simply says Windows because I use and also support various different versions of it. I also don't see the need to detail all the specifics of my system(s) as I use more than one Windows system. But if you go back to the very first post in this thread, it's mentioned in the first sentence that the computer in question has OEM Win-10-Pro factory installed on it. I don't often pay too much attention to someone's avatar's equipment list. I've not used group policy options to control Windows update but it's good to know there is such an option and I'll look into it once I have the basic installation in place, probably over the next week or so. Right now is simply an evaluation / assessment stage on how I'm going to do things in Win-10. In the past, all versions of Windows I've used simply have Windows Update service completely disabled in the first place. If and when it is a suitable time to check whether there are applicable updates, I will enable it for the duration to complete update searches / checks / downloads and installations need to be done and once completed, the update service is once again re-disabled. I find that this is the least intrusive approach. It also speeds up Windows boot because Windows update isn't checking what updates the system has installed and what new updates are available, etc. There's no doubt that there will be constantly new updates especially with the spaghetti that Win-10 is. I'm not that panicky I need to have all latest updates it immediately. The sky isn't going to fall down. I prefer to have update service completely shut down and have full manual control. Don't really even need to be notified because in all likelihood there will always be some new updates.

    Upon further evaluation on the consequences of a missing Windows recovery partition, I've decided that I will likely omit setting up a recovery partition and use that freed up disc space to user data space instead. I rarely if every have used Windows repair or recovery at all in all past Windows version from Win-XP onwards. And would prefer not to use it if I can avoid it. If I have any doubts, just restore from a recent image back up and have 100% confidence that I have reverted back to a good snapshot I previously captured in an image back up.

    What's interesting in examining the GPT disc partitioning of the notebook factory OEM set up is that the MSR partition is actually absent on the HDD. There's the usual first partition for EFI, followed by the drive C primary user partition, then a Windows recovery partition (rather large actually, a big waste of HDD space) and then an OEM recovery partition of 13 GB, a ridiculous waste of disc space while saving optical media restore discs manufacturing costs.
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  8. Posts : 2,755
    Windows 10 Home x64
       #28

    According to Disk Alignment Test I am currently resizing my EFI (ESP) partitions to 300MB instead of 100MB because it complaints of small cluster size detected.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Windows 10 fresh installation on computer delivered with Win-10 OEM-diskat1.png   Windows 10 fresh installation on computer delivered with Win-10 OEM-diskat2.png  
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  9. Posts : 24
    Windows
    Thread Starter
       #29

    eLPuSHeR said:
    According to Disk Alignment Test I am currently resizing my EFI (ESP) partitions to 300MB instead of 100MB because it complaints of small cluster size detected.
    That looks like a very interesting and useful utility. I'm curious what guidelines you used to decide that you need to increase EFI partition to 300 MB? I did read up on this subject a bit on this article below and it seems that the minimum EFI partition size table shown in the article also states a recommended EFI partition size similar to what you're expanding yours to:

    How large should you make the UEFI System Partition? | Ctrl blog
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  10. Posts : 2,755
    Windows 10 Home x64
       #30

    wintenprouser said:
    That looks like a very interesting and useful utility. I'm curious what guidelines you used to decide that you need to increase EFI partition to 300 MB? I did read up on this subject a bit on this article below and it seems that the minimum EFI partition size table shown in the article also states a recommended EFI partition size similar to what you're expanding yours to:

    How large should you make the UEFI System Partition? | Ctrl blog
    I chose 300MB because with 100MB you cannot increase cluster size (using unit=4k on diskpart for instance).

    create partition efi size=300
    format quick fs=fat32 unit=4k label="ESP"
    I modified some diskpart script created by some member of these forums. Kudos to him/her for creating the script.
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