UEFI Work-around with New SSD

Jim McClain · 26 Jan 2018

I've been getting that UEFI error message for several months now and it has become so irritating that I want to do something about it. I have an existing Windows 10 Professional installation on a Samsung 850 PRO 512GB SSD (C:>), but I am concerned about its useful life span (I've had it for 3+ years, starting as a data only drive, then moved to replace the system drive), so I am replacing it with a new Samsung 860 EVO 500GB SSD.

What is the best method of installing that drive to assure it is UEFI compliant and still allow me to copy (image?) all of my existing programs and settings to the new drive without having to reinstall everything?

Do my other drives have UEFI issues, or is that just a boot drive thing?

My forum profile lists more details for my system, if you need them.

Thanks,

Jim

PolarNettles · 26 Jan 2018

What is the exact error message and when does it occur?

Jim McClain · 26 Jan 2018

I'm not sure of the exact error message, but it refers to the disk layout for UEFI firmware not being supported. Some updates succeed, but the creators update (now we're into the Fall Creators Update) won't install. I did a manual update check this morning and these updates were successfully installed:

Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB4023057)
Update for Windows 10 for x64-based Systems (KB4023814)
2018-01 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB4057142)

I didn't think that all would matter though, since I will be installing a new drive (whether I need to or not) with a fresh Windows 10 install, which will, I think, cause the new SSD to be formatted the way Windows wants it to be. But after that, I want to make sure I have instructions to restore all of my programs and settings without having to reinstall and configure each one separately.

Thanks,

Jim

AddRAM · 26 Jan 2018

Install the new ssd in your system, turn on your PC. You should get a message asking you how you want to initialise it, choose GPT.
If you don't get the message you can make sure the drive is GPT with Partition Wizard, or Diskpart, but if you are not comfortable with Diskpart then just install and use Partition Wizard.
Just highlight the new ssd and right click on it to get a drop down. After you`re sure you have the drive as you want it, just reimage windows on the new ssd.

I would use Disk Management to see what your current OS disk is before you start, but it`s probably GPT.

Jim McClain · 26 Jan 2018

AddRAM said:

Install the neww ssd in your system, turn on your PC. You should get a message asking you how you want to initialise it, choose GPT.

Should I disconnect all the other drives so as not to confuse the computer?

If you don't get the message you can make sure the drive is GPT with Partition Wizard, or Diskpart, but if you are not comfortable with Diskpart then just install and use Partition Wizard.

Install it where, on a thumb drive? I wouldn't be able to install it on a blank SSD, right?

I would use Disk Management to see what your current OS disk is before you start, but it`s probably GPT.

It's not obvious to me, except maybe that my current SSD shows "Convert to GPT disk" grayed out. I guess if it wasn't GPT, then that would be a live option. Here are screen shots of what I got.

UEFI Work-around with New SSD-disk-management1.gif

UEFI Work-around with New SSD-disk-management2.gif

I can't tell you how or when the System Reserved and the unnamed partitions were created, or why they are in the order they are. I have a feeling this has been part of the problem. I don't see why they are needed and wished I could have deleted their contents and merged them into the C: partition.

Appreciate the help,

Jim
PS: Should I create a new thread to ask about making an image of just those folders I need for the new drive? In addition to Windows, I think I need the folders (and their contents) Outlook Files, Program Files, Program Files (x86), ProgramData and Users (I have the standard user folders on the E: drive).

AddRAM · 26 Jan 2018

No, you can't initialise the new ssd if you don't have your Windows drive hooked up. The GPT option is grayed out because you are using that drive, you can`t make changes like that to your OS drive while you are using it.

I mean you can with Diskpart, you`d have to boot from an install dvd, but I would not tell you to do that, you have to be good at command line and you could easily mess something up.

You would install Partition Wizard on your current Operating System, whatever you are using now, Windows 7 etc.

From your Disk Management shot it says your 512 GB ssd is MBR (Master Boot Record)

I have no idea why you would be getting UEFI error messages, If you want to image the 512GB ssd to the new 500GB ssd, the 500GB must be initialised as MBR.

If you want your system to be strictly UEFI, then you would have to either clean install Windows to a GPT disk, or convert your 512GB ssd to GPT and then make your image.

I am no expert on the latter, hopefully someone can give you detailed instructions if you wanted to do that. You can convert a data drive from MBR to GPT without data loss, but I am not certain if you can convert a OS drive from MBR to GPT without data loss.

AddRAM · 26 Jan 2018

Also, I see you have the page file on another drive, it should be with C unless you have a very small OS drive, which you don`t. I would put the page file back on the 512GB ssd, and trim it down to 8GB

When you install windows it creates a page file the same amount as how much memory you have installed, in your case, and mine (if I used one) that amount would be 32GB, way too much, and that's 32GB of space on your ssd that gets used up, there's no need for that.

AddRAM · 26 Jan 2018

In reply #3 you say you want a fresh W10 install, and then you say you "But after that, I want to make sure I have instructions to restore all of my programs and settings without having to reinstall and configure each one separately."

If you were to do a clean install, you have to reinstall all your software. Also, You are way behind if you are still using 1607, I would create a Fall Creators Update dvd or usb stick installer and clean install it, no sense trying to upgrade after you reimage to the new ssd.

The only way to preserve everything is to create an image of the entire 512GB ssd and then reimage it to the new 500GB ssd. You can delete the Recovery partition later on if you want to.

I don't see why you have one anyway, unless it came from the factory like that. But if you installed W10 yourself, then that's why it's there.

And yes, I would start a new thread about your last question :) but those items should be on your C partition already.

This link will let you download the latest Windows 10 Iso file so you can create a usb or dvd installer. Go slow, take your time, read what it says :)

Download Windows 10

Or you can use this link to download the Creators Update and since you have Pro, you can postpone the Update to the Fall Creators Update for up to a year.

Personally, I don't even consider installing the latest update for at least 6 months from its release date.

TechBench by WZT (v4.1.1)

topgundcp · 26 Jan 2018

When you install Windows using MBR partition layout, the installation will create a System Reserved partition and C drive partition. The reserved partition is used for:

Store the boot manager to boot Windows
If you use bitlocker feature, Windows will use it to store the info.
Store the Recovery environment to boot from for diagnostic and troubleshooting in case Windows becomes unbootable.

Your disk 0 contains a 350MB Reserved partition which indicates that you upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 8. Fresh install Windows 10 will have 550MB System Reserved partition. That's the reason why you have an extra Recovery partition created to store the Recovery Environment.

In addition, your System Reserved is not being used to boot from. Your Windows is currently booted from C drive since it's marked as Active.

As mentioned above, your pagefile.sys is in disk 1. It is not recommended, keep it in C drive and set it to 1024MB (1GB). Chances Windows will never use this file, just to have 1GB to satisfy some of the old programs that looks for Pagefile.sys.

Use Macrium Reflect to back up your Disk 0, download the version for your Windows, There's tutorial in this forum to show how:
Macrium Reflect Free Edition x64
Macrium Reflect Free Edition x86

The backup image will contain everything in C drive that you can use to selectively restore anything from it.

Jim McClain · 27 Jan 2018

Sorry for the late reply, but I had to do some thinking about this and some further research.

AddRAM said:

If you want your system to be strictly UEFI, then you would have to either clean install Windows to a GPT disk, or convert your 512GB ssd to GPT and then make your image.

I am no expert on the latter, hopefully someone can give you detailed instructions if you wanted to do that. You can convert a data drive from MBR to GPT without data loss, but I am not certain if you can convert a OS drive from MBR to GPT without data loss.

My research indicates that I won't be able to convert the existing C: drive to GPT unless it is an empty drive. And images can only be made of whole drives or partitions, not specific folders. This means I will have to go through the long and arduous process of reinstalling all my programs and software. I haven't done that in years, but I still remember all the times I did it in the past and hated every minute.

AddRAM said:

Also, I see you have the page file on another drive, it should be with C unless you have a very small OS drive, which you don`t. I would put the page file back on the 512GB ssd, and trim it down to 8GB

When I first built this machine, the C: drive was a 256GB SSD and I assumed at the time it was too small to include a page file. But my original plan was to have the page file, scratch files (for Lightroom & Photoshop) and temp files on a separate 128GB SSD. I see there is a lot of back and forth debate on having a page file on a SSD, but I think I agree that, since I have 32GB of RAM, I don't use a page file very often, if at all, so an 8GB pagefile on a SSD C: drive shouldn't be a problem.

AddRAM said:

This link will let you download the latest Windows 10 Iso file so you can create a usb or dvd installer. Go slow, take your time, read what it says :)

Download Windows 10

Thanks, I think that's the route I'll be taking.

topgundcp said:

Your disk 0 contains a 350MB Reserved partition which indicates that you upgraded to Windows 10 from Windows 8. Fresh install Windows 10 will have 550MB System Reserved partition. That's the reason why you have an extra Recovery partition created to store the Recovery Environment.

Thanks for explaining that. I was mystified. I built this system as a Windows 8 machine several years ago and the storage system was a little different. The original disk 0 was a 256GB SSD, disk 1 was 128GB SSD and the data drive was 512GB SSD. At some point, I upgraded to Windows 10. Then last year (or late 2016, I can't remember) I found that disk 0 was running low on space, so I bought a 5TB HDD to take the place of the 512GB SSD, which I moved to the disk 0 position and populated it with an image of the original 256GB disk 0. So, that's why I have my current disk 0 partitioned like it is.

When I replace the current disk 0 with the new 500GB SSD, I will make sure it is GPT and install the latest Windows 10 iso.

Use Macrium Reflect to back up your Disk 0, download the version for your Windows, There's tutorial in this forum to show how:
Macrium Reflect Free Edition x64
Macrium Reflect Free Edition x86

The backup image will contain everything in C drive that you can use to selectively restore anything from it.

I will check that out for sure, thanks.

I appreciate all the help with this. I used to build - and mod - systems a lot, back in the day (I had a system featured in CPU Magazine Oct. 2003 and ran a fairly popular case mod forum for a couple years before I got sick). This current machine was meant to be my last. Nothing fancy, but plenty powerful for a photographer. But I keep going way beyond my expiration date and I keep coming back here for help.

Jim