Windows 10: Query for others who use Rufus to create a bootable Win10 flash drive Solved

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  1.    31 Dec 2017 #21

    NavyLCDR said: View Post
    Yep, personal preference as long as you get all the choices selected properly in RUFUS and selected in the proper order. I prefer diskpart because to me the choices are fewer and I have the few commands memorized so it takes me less than one minute to get the flash drive ready to copy files to.
    In Diskpart...Is the Assign command at the end unnecessary? If you leave out the Assign command does Windows 10 dynamically and automatically assign the flash drive with a drive letter when you insert it anyway? The reason I ask is that the guys on here that gave me some advice a while ago didn't use the assign command but on some other tutorials Ive seen it shown. I would like the flash drive to be dynamically given a letter I don't really want to start fixing drive letters and maybe cause myself added problems later.
    These were the commands I was given. Are the commands the same as you use when creating your bootable Windows 10 USB flash drive?
    Diskpart
    list disk
    select disk X (whatever the flash drive number is)
    clean
    create partition primary
    select partition 1
    format fs=fat32 quick
    active
    exit (to leave diskpart)
    exit (to close command prompt window)

    Do you close the command prompt window after finishing the Diskpart commands before Mounting the Windows 10 ISO in File explorer and copying and pasting the files over to the USB flash drive?
    I ask that because when searching for advice on how to copy the Windows files over to the USB flash drive some people are insisting that the Command Prompt be left open for some reason while copying files but other sites just say to close Command prompt as soon as you've finished with Diskpart.
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  2.    31 Dec 2017 #22

    sportsfan148 said: View Post
    When you say Windows Setup will partition your hard drive based on whether you booted the USB from MBR or GPT...do you mean whether the partition table on the USB was set to MBR or GPT when you booted that is what determines what your hard drive is partitioned in? Media Creation Tool and Diskpart use MBR to create the USB but as far as I'm aware Windows 10 partitions on my PC (c:drive) is GPT?
    You say "So even if you have a UEFI system, if you boot Windows Setup from MBR then you would get an MBR hard drive and lose the advantages of GPT. That's why Rufus makes you explicitly choose the partition type when creating the USB drive." I'm not sure I understand that. Do you mean that where Rufus asks for Partition type it is asking you what your hard drive partitioning on your PC is. I thought it was asking you what partition scheme you wanted to be set up on the USB flash drive that it is about to create.
    What are you actually selecting to happen when you choose GPT partition Scheme for UEFI in Rufus..what does Rufus presume and what action does Rufus perform when you make that selection?
    Sorry, I was oversimplifying things and conflating BIOS/MBR and UEFI/GPT because that's how Rufus names the options. You can actually boot the UEFI bootloader from an MBR drive. Let me try to clarify:

    1. When you use Rufus or the Media Creation Tool to create an MBR drive, both the BIOS bootloader and the UEFI bootloader are copied to the drive. But it is up to your UEFI configuration which one is used. If your UEFI boot order chooses the UEFI bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in UEFI mode. If your UEFI boot order chooses the BIOS bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in BIOS mode. So your it looks like your machine chose UEFI first (mine defaults to BIOS).

    2. If you select MBR in Rufus then depending on your UEFI configuration you may enter Windows Setup in either BIOS or UEFI mode, which determines which partition type Windows Setup will use. Since the boot order is configurable by the user and OEM, it's better to explicitly select GPT in Rufus if you know that you have a UEFI-based system. That way you know for sure that Windows Setup will enter UEFI mode and create GPT partitions.

    3. If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition, which does not have the BIOS bootloader. That way there's no way Windows Setup will boot into BIOS mode.

    Edit: Just a minor correction to #3 - the BIOS bootloader is actually present when GPT is used. This is part of the protective MBR that prevents legacy OSes from clobbering the GPT partitions. However, the protective MBR marks the entire drive as a non-Windows drive so the BIOS bootloader won't be able to find the Windows Setup files.
    Last edited by PolarNettles; 31 Dec 2017 at 15:50.
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  3.    31 Dec 2017 #23

    PolarNettles said: View Post
    Sorry, I was oversimplifying things and conflating BIOS/MBR and UEFI/GPT because that's how Rufus names the options. You can actually boot the UEFI bootloader from an MBR drive. Let me try to clarify:

    1. When you use Rufus or the Media Creation Tool to create an MBR drive, both the BIOS bootloader and the UEFI bootloader are copied to the drive. But it is up to your UEFI configuration which one is used. If your UEFI boot order chooses the UEFI bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in UEFI mode. If your UEFI boot order chooses the BIOS bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in BIOS mode. So your it looks like your machine chose UEFI first (mine defaults to BIOS).

    2. If you select MBR in Rufus then depending on your UEFI configuration you may enter Windows Setup in either BIOS or UEFI mode, which determines which partition type Windows Setup will use. Since the boot order is configurable by the user and OEM, it's better to explicitly select GPT in Rufus if you know that you have a UEFI-based system. That way you know for sure that Windows Setup will enter UEFI mode and create GPT partitions.

    3. If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition, which does not have the BIOS bootloader. That way there's no way Windows Setup will boot into BIOS mode.
    Thanks for that. Yes my Windows is installed with GPT and booted up in UEFI.
    Where you said "If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition, which does not have the BIOS bootloader. That way there's no way Windows Setup will boot into BIOS mode."...do you mean If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition on the USB flash drive which does not have the BIOS Bootloader ? If that's what you meant it makes sense to me now..Thanks

    As far as I'm aware flash drives are shipped in MBR format. I was told that when I had a problem using the Media Creation Tool it was because Id used that USB flash drive before with Rufus and the GPT partition on the flash drive was causing the Media Creation Tool to have a problem.
    I'm trying to decide whether its better to get used to the Rufus method when creating a bootable Windows 10 USB flash drive or whether the Diskpart method is the better choice to use....meaning which method will cause the least problems in the future.
    I just want a method I can stick to. I thought Id found that with the Media creation Tool until recently
    Last edited by sportsfan148; 31 Dec 2017 at 15:26.
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  4.    31 Dec 2017 #24

    sportsfan148 said: View Post
    Thanks for that. Yes my Windows is installed with GPT and booted up in UEFI.
    Where you said "If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition, which does not have the BIOS bootloader. That way there's no way Windows Setup will boot into BIOS mode."...do you mean If you choose GPT then Rufus will create a GPT partition on the USB flash drive which does not have the BIOS Bootloader ? If that's what you meant it makes sense to me now..Thanks
    That is correct.

    sportsfan148 said: View Post
    As far as I'm aware flash drives are shipped in MBR format. I was told that when I had a problem using the Media Creation Tool it was because Id used that USB flash drive before with Rufus and the GPT partition on the flash drive was causing the Media Creation Tool to have a problem.
    I'm trying to decide whether its better to get used to the Rufus method when creating a bootable Windows 10 USB flash drive or whether the Diskpart method is the better choice to use....meaning which method will cause the least problems in the future.
    I just want a method I can stick to. I thought Id found that with the Media creation Tool until recently
    Rufus has always been reliable for me. It does seem like the Media Creation Tool has problems with some USB drive configurations - whether it's the partition type or something else I haven't really investigated.
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  5.    31 Dec 2017 #25

    PolarNettles said...Rufus has always been reliable for me. It does seem like the Media Creation Tool has problems with some USB drive configurations - whether it's the partition type or something else I haven't really investigated.

    The other day I had an issue with Rufus where the screen flashed and the Rufus settings Id entered went back to defaults. Id made sure Id entered everything in the correct order too..ensuring I selected the ISO image first before changing the selection to GPT partition for UEFI. As I was selecting a volume label the screen flickered and my settings reverted to defaults so I cancelled it and headed over to tenforums for advice.
    That's why I asked NavyLCDR above if the Diskpart Commands Id been given if I decided to use the Diskpart method were the same as he used but he musnt be around on the site at the moment..I had a couple of other questions in that post above too regarding Diskpart so I'm hoping he gets back to me because its either Diskpart or Rufus from now on..I wont use Media Creation Tool again

    PolarNettles said "When you use Rufus or the Media Creation Tool to create an MBR drive, both the BIOS bootloader and the UEFI bootloader are copied to the drive. But it is up to your UEFI configuration which one is used. If your UEFI boot order chooses the UEFI bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in UEFI mode. If your UEFI boot order chooses the BIOS bootloader first then Windows Setup will boot in BIOS mode. So your it looks like your machine chose UEFI first (mine defaults to BIOS)"

    Is that what also happens when you use Diskpart. Does Diskpart automatically copy both BIOS and UEFI bootloaders to the USB flash drive?..and because my system is UEFI then the UEFI bootloader only will be used?
    Last edited by sportsfan148; 31 Dec 2017 at 16:13.
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  6. Posts : 132
    Windows 10 Pro/Education x64
       31 Dec 2017 #26

    I've used the diskpart method and can confirm it works. However, I split my flash drive into 2 partitions; one set up as FAT32 for boot files and the other setup as NTFS for image files from Macrium. The tutorial I used was from this link.
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  7.    31 Dec 2017 #27

    sportsfan148 said: View Post
    Are the commands the same as you use when creating your bootable Windows 10 USB flash drive?
    Diskpart
    list disk
    select disk X (whatever the flash drive number is)
    clean
    create partition primary
    select partition 1
    format fs=fat32 quick
    active
    exit (to leave diskpart)
    exit (to close command prompt window)

    Do you close the command prompt window after finishing the Diskpart commands before Mounting the Windows 10 ISO in File explorer and copying and pasting the files over to the USB flash drive?
    The reason I use diskpart is because it creates a flash drive in exactly the same format as the one you would get straight out of a retail packaged Windows 10 directly from Microsoft. The select partition 1 command above is not required - but if for some reason diskpart does not automatically select the partition you create with the command above it, it will cause it to be selected. It does no harm to enter the command - but it should not be required.

    The same is true with the assign command. After you format the partition, diskpart should automatically assign the next drive letter. But, if for some reason that does not happen automatically, the assign command will do it. Again, that should not be necessary, but it does no harm to enter the command either. The assign command, by itself, will dynamically assign the next available drive letter to the flash drive. The "assign letter=X" command will assign whatever letter you substitute for X to the flash drive, assuming that letter is not already in use.

    It makes no difference if you close the command window before or after you mount the ISO file to copy the files and folders over to the flash. I like to do it before just because it is super simple to enter exit twice in a row. I can't see any advantage to waiting until after the files are copied to close the command window.
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  8. Ztruker's Avatar
    Posts : 6,434
    Windows 10 Pro X64 17134.191
       31 Dec 2017 #28

    Hey, New Years resolution (for you) :) :) :) . Write a Tutorial with all the bells and whistles on using DISKPART to create Win 10 installation flash drives.

    Happy New Years
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  9.    31 Dec 2017 #29

    sportsfan148 said: View Post
    Is that what also happens when you use Diskpart. Does Diskpart automatically copy both BIOS and UEFI bootloaders to the USB flash drive?..and because my system is UEFI then the UEFI bootloader only will be used?
    If you don't tell diskpart to convert to GPT then it will create an MBR, which will have the 1st stage of the BIOS bootloader. The full UEFI bootloader (efi\boot\bootx64.efi) as well as the 2nd stage of the BIOS bootloader (\bootmgr) are copied later from the ISO.

    As I mentioned earlier, if the USB drive is MBR and has both BIOS and UEFI bootloaders present then which one is used depends on your system's configured UEFI boot order.
      My ComputerSystem Spec


  10. Posts : 16
    Windows 10 insider preview (skip ahead settings)
       01 Jan 2018 #30

    I depend on rufus. Easy to create a bootable flash drive. I either use factory "create partition" tool for all Windows versions to format flash drive to fat 32 or let refus do it for me. I select the drive for my flash drive and iso file and select build. I have never played with other settings in refus, and I've always had insecure boot turned on. Never had a problem with refus. MS-DOS BIOS PowerShell 2.0 uefi system. Works the same on any version of Windows and Linux using same settings. Installs the same on both my hp (uefi) and accent 32 bit Dell with standered BIOS pulling flash drive from one unit after install to the other to install. Same method, select iso, select flash drive, refus does rest.

    Also, I have recently noticed media creation tool won't do iso download for doing bootable flash drive, but it will do "upgrade this pc"

    As I'm waiting for new year to pass to see if media creation tool still works for Windows 8.1 users, I do know Windows 8 media creation tool still works (last tested) and as a complete non-noob, I ran both 8 and 10 creation tools to download iso a long time ago and still have them. Even have multi iso for Windows 7 32/64 home basic to Windows N. You never know when they will no longer allow downloading them, save them when you get them.
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